"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[Rigil Kent]

Can we stick to discussing the story and not going off on rants about what happened in canon? The canon relationship of Trip/T'Pol from "Dead Stop" forward is irrelevant in this context. It didn't happen. And it would probably really help to read the story to understand the context of Dinah's original question.

I guess, after further thought, I generally agree with Alelou in this case. T'Pol grew up not expecting to really know her future spouse, so I could certainly see her resigning herself to a liaison with a different male character (Archer, Reed, etc.) in this situation, and perhaps eventually growing to like them well enough. One thing that would change in such a situation is the timetable - at this point in the story, TnT haven't been "sequestered" (so to speak) together for a full year, yet already the bond is manifesting, which I intended to be a hint at her own affection for Trip pushing the table forward. With pretty much every other character (Archer possibly being the exception, although he'd have to get over his deep-rooted Vulcan animosity and I could easily see that alongside the mounting frustration over the condition leading to a major personality clash that effectively triples the amount of time it would require for them to "get together" ... again, depending on whether he is able to stay alive for any length of time), there isn't that easy familiarity already present, so it would assuredly take the entire year (plus some more) for such a relationship to evolve. First, she has to get to know them and eventually move past the layer of professionalism she has erected - this would take many months itself - and then, they have to fully earn her loyalty and respect. With the pa'nar, though, I could see that, by the time she even considers something, she's already starting to manifest greater symptoms, so its already too late.

Still, I stand by my previous reasoning as to why it wouldn't happen with anyone but Trip.

Changing subjects because I'd really like to avoid this thread turning into the usual Bash Archer thread that most around here seem to evolve into (which has, I believe, a stifling atmosphere and turns off a lot more people than it interests), I realize now that no one has really commented on something and I wanted to see if it had actually been noticed by the readers, specifically the evolution of how T'Pol thinks. In the beginning of the story, during her POV scenes, she consistently thought of her fellow officer as "Commander Tucker" or "the engineer" or other distancing titles. Pretty soon afterward, "Charles" entered her thought processes, generally replacing the titles (but not his rank.) I slowly increased the number of references to actual given name with time while phasing out his rank entirely. I then injected the occasional "Trip", which slowly but steadily grew in frequency until it displaced "Charles." By their short stint with the refugee band, T'Pol was thinking of him exclusively as "Trip," even if she tried to avoid using the name.

Was this an effective way of hinting at her changing attitude? I was aiming for subtlety, so its entirely possible that it might have not even been noticed (especially if you haven't reread it from beginning), but I was curious as to whether this literary device was as effective or even noticeable.

Also? Don't expect pet names like 'th'yla' or 'ashayam.' I'm not opposed to them in principle, but I think they're too often overused in fiction when her simply using "Trip" seems more intimate to me. (And dammit, I still wish we could have seen her use his nickname in front of Archer during season 4 just so we could actually witness the captain's reaction.)

[panyasan]

Changing subjects because I'd really like to avoid this thread turning into the usual Bash Archer thread that most around here seem to evolve into (which has, I believe, a stifling atmosphere and turns off a lot more people than it interests), I realize now that no one has really commented on something and I wanted to see if it had actually been noticed by the readers, specifically the evolution of how T'Pol thinks. In the beginning of the story, during her POV scenes, she consistently thought of her fellow officer as "Commander Tucker" or "the engineer" or other distancing titles. Pretty soon afterward, "Charles" entered her thought processes, generally replacing the titles (but not his rank.) I slowly increased the number of references to actual given name with time while phasing out his rank entirely. I then injected the occasional "Trip", which slowly but steadily grew in frequency until it displaced "Charles." By their short stint with the refugee band, T'Pol was thinking of him exclusively as "Trip," even if she tried to avoid using the name.

Was this an effective way of hinting at her changing attitude? I was aiming for subtlety, so its entirely possible that it might have not even been noticed (especially if you haven't reread it from beginning), but I was curious as to whether this literary device was as effective or even noticeable.

It struck me in chapter 47 when they are in the white space that T'Pol adresses Trip with Trip. Also at the end of chapter 48, when Trip says "finally you call me Trip" I thought "but she did it also in the white space". Trip was problably too much thinking it was a dream and after that freaking out that he didn't noticed. I also remember in one of the earlier chapter that Trip asks if she would call him Trip, she doesn't, but when he is asleep she calls him Trip. But only the wind heard it. In the chapters I haven't notice she started to call him Trip, problably because it doesn't surprise me if she would. It came of naturally or as a natural development.

[Silverbullet]

In the TV series Enterprise she calls him Trip on a few occasions. In bound twice and other times.

She didn't seem that reluctant to call him Trip but probably not around others. Of course that is amilitary, using Rank in public and personal names in private.

[Aquarius]

In the TV series Enterprise she calls him Trip on a few occasions. In bound twice and other times.

She didn't seem that reluctant to call him Trip but probably not around others. Of course that is amilitary, using Rank in public and personal names in private.

Again, this occurs in the show *after* Rigil's story takes place, so what she does in later episodes doesn't really apply to what Rigil is writing.

[WarpGirl]

I noticed it. I thought it was a very good way of showing T'Pol's evolution with her side of the relationship. You did that extremely well Rigil, in fact I wonder how you could think people would not notice it.

But I never thought her calling him "Trip" is all that intimate. After all everyone calls him Trip! It's like the first thing he tells anyone he meets. Whereas nobody calls him Charles, so I always thought that using his given name was more intimate. Did I miss an episode where he says he hates his name or something?

As for her doing it in front of Archer, part of me wonders if he would have noticed. However I think it would have depended on the episode.

[panyasan]

But I never thought her calling him "Trip" is all that intimate. After all everyone calls him Trip!

I don't know, for me Trip sounds more intimate then his offical name. Vulcans also never use nicknames, so that makes it even more special for me.

[WarpGirl]

Well the point of a "pet name" for a lover is that only *you* use it. Like I said everyone uses Trip. Oh well maybe I just like the name Charles too much. Spock calls James Kirk, Jim.

[panyasan]

Had a T'Pol moment for a second. Warpgirl wants T'Pol name Trip after the dog? (pet name). Honestly, Trip is problably the most intimate way of adressing Trip for T'Pol, because it's his personal name.

[Dinah]

Quite a while ago, this came up when I reviewed one of Rigil's earlier chapter. I took him to task because T'Pol was calling Trip, Charles.

I must admit that I do wish T'Pol would honor his request and call him Trip at least once. I know it's a nickname, but having been the third "Charles" in the family, I think the name "Trip" helped him to establish his own unique identity. When T'Pol continues to use Charles, it's throwing him back into the mix with all the other Charles' in his family and unintentionally failing to acknowledge the independent man he has become.

I understand why some people want to seemiingly keep T'Pol Vulcan by using Trip's given name, but in all honesty, he probably only heard his family call him that when he was in trouble. He asked her to call him Trip. That's the name he's most comfortable with.

I see now why Rigil wrote this the way he did. Trip's name became a metaphor for their evolving relationship. First it was Commander, then Charles. By the time she began to think of him as Trip, she still couldn't bring herself to admit her feelings for him, so he was Trip only in her thoughts. Now she stands to lose him in a sudden and horrendous way. Now she wants him to know what he means to her so that he will trust her completely and allow her to help him. Hence, Trip. Very slick, Rigil.

[The_Middleman]

...no one has really commented on something and I wanted to see if it had actually been noticed by the readers, specifically the evolution of how T'Pol thinks. In the beginning of the story, during her POV scenes, she consistently thought of her fellow officer as "Commander Tucker" or "the engineer" or other distancing titles. Pretty soon afterward, "Charles" entered her thought processes, generally replacing the titles (but not his rank.) I slowly increased the number of references to actual given name with time while phasing out his rank entirely. I then injected the occasional "Trip", which slowly but steadily grew in frequency until it displaced "Charles." By their short stint with the refugee band, T'Pol was thinking of him exclusively as "Trip," even if she tried to avoid using the name.

Was this an effective way of hinting at her changing attitude? I was aiming for subtlety, so its entirely possible that it might have not even been noticed (especially if you haven't reread it from beginning), but I was curious as to whether this literary device was as effective or even noticeable.

Also? Don't expect pet names like 'th'yla' or 'ashayam.' I'm not opposed to them in principle, but I think they're too often overused in fiction when her simply using "Trip" seems more intimate to me.

Well ... seeing as you asked .... I didn't pick up on that, mostly because I didn't re-read the story from the beginning so I failed to notice that change in this series of updates. But now that you pointed it out ... I see it as part of her natural progression of growing close to Trip, especially in their situation. I see it (and very non romantically I might add) as what can naturally happen between a man and a woman who only have each other as companions for along period of time. Camaraderie / dependence evolving into respect and friendship evolving into love and ..... you get the picture. Also, like you, I never pictured TnT declaring their undying love for each other, they would just show it in small ways ... in their interactions.

(And dammit, I still wish we could have seen her use his nickname in front of Archer during season 4 just so we could actually witness the captain's reaction.)

Yeah, I would have paid to see something like that.

By the way dude, where did you get that avatar.

[Rigil Kent]

Spock calls James Kirk, Jim.

You just made my point. "Jim" is how James T. Kirk thinks of himself and "Trip" is how Charles Tucker III thinks of himself. "Charles" is his grandpa's name, not his. You and I may not think of it as intimate to use a person's preferred nickname, but to a Vulcan? Seems to say a whole lot to me.

Dinah phrases my thinking perfectly:

Trip's name became a metaphor for their evolving relationship. First it was Commander, then Charles. By the time she began to think of him as Trip, she still couldn't bring herself to admit her feelings for him, so he was Trip only in her thoughts. Now she stands to lose him in a sudden and horrendous way. Now she wants him to know what he means to her so that he will trust her completely and allow her to help him. Hence, Trip.

And I personally can't think of a greater compliment than to have a Vulcan agree to call me by my personal nickname. It was never intended to be a "pet" name because I can't see T'Pol actually using something like that, but rather a way of her showing him that she sees him as an individual worthy of respect.

By the way dude, where did you get that avatar.

I made it from a photo I found online with Jolene and Connor posing with a "blood-soaked" extra. Jolene's expression here cracks me up ... hence, the avatar.

[Alelou]

Do you have a link to the whole photo? This I'd like to see.

I have noticed some gradual changes, and the recent switch to "Trip," but I can't say anything really struck me. That's probably a compliment -- things tend to strike me mostly when they strike me as wrong (or really, really funny). But I've been hoping to go back and reread this series from the beginning and I just haven't had time yet.

[Thot]

Hey all of you.

So this is my first signal in this forum... so let's begin.

To your story: At first I was quite sceptical about the plot and so on, but then I took the time to read and by now I can only say: Awesome!

Especially with your attempt to keep an eye on the developement on Enterprise as well, makes it interesting.

constructive critique:
- a scene, where you would told us a bit about the Pa'Nar revelation would have been good, something like 'Trip is shocked, storms off some time later and then contemplaits about what she said', but this is far from making it bad or such a thing, since you picked up in a later scene again (can't remember it right now, but Trip was thinking to himself about T'Pol and commented about her being the one, who will die earlier than him or so...)
- the skipped two months thing: Good! Because more and more repetitons about who awful it is, doesn't add anything to the story itself
I think you made a great job in pointing out the devastation of a country in war and all the social havoc it is causing
- to the 'Trip/T'pol don't get off the dime for so long': it doesn't have to be that way to go over months, but I find Rigil's approach good, because the way I see Trip, he is someone, who acts on romance/love and not so much talk about it. And since he thinks always T'Pol and Archer had a thing, he wouldn't act intentionally towards her. Poor fellow: Too fair-minded for his own good in this case.
In addition: This way respects T'Pol's Vulcan nature. I mean: hello!? How are the masters in the ways of denying emotions but Vulcans?
- but I think that it was good, that you let T/T make the first step into something definite in the last two capters, since you already surpassed the 100,000 words border and you can prolong the friction between them without going too far.

To the prospects:
I just pray that you will reintegrate them in some time, because it gives you so much potential to right: Trip and T'Pol both on their own, have changed tremendously during this months (Trip from being still a bit innocent/ an explorer to someone, who went through a war, had to kill - I simply commend you on the scanvenger situation, where he had an emotional responce - and T'Pol with her believes turned upside down) and Archer who is doubting in many ways

I just can't get a possible scene out of my head, where Trip and T'Pol come back without Archer knowing and Trip wants to surprise Jon by simply stepping through the door and delievering a status report (a joke as if nothing had happen or Trip makes some remarks like 'You people seem to be lost without me' or 'Now look at that: You are just away for a few months and the engines go into a vacation'), Jon simply listens shocked till his core about Trip being alive and then Jon has something like a breakdown whatever

And if you even bring Trip and T'Pol back to Enterprise at some moment and then continue to "rewrite"/"add" the rest of the original series to the changed facts, I would even consider to erect a little shrine at my home for you... well not completly, but you can guess, who I would like it, because many people complain, who the writers/producers should have made the series in a different way (T'Pol more with a backbone, Trip not so much standing under Archer's wings, Archer simply more consistent in his behavior) and Rigil presents in his series a great opportunity, how and why the figures would have developed in such ways, many desire/recomment what ever.

So, Rigil, keep on writing!


P.S.: I hope, I didn't make a fool of myself in my first comment in the forum.

[Dinah]

Welcome, Thot! Great first post!

[hth2k]

Hey Rigil.

Haven't been around much for a while. Happened to catch an update on FF.net a while back and started following this story again. It is good and I am enjoying it. Happy you are writing in this area again. Unfortunately my old computta and ancient OS won't let me log in to make comments. Sigh. Hope to uprgade both later this summer.

Ok, given the war torn setting and a planet that is apparently off the regular visitation list, getting off that rock is going to be a good trick or more likely happy accident if someone they klnow happens by and notices a Vulcan biosign where none should be maybe. I don't see the locals welcoming them into their inner sanctum and giving them assets to create a subspace tramnmitter to send out an SOS.

Would Starfleet simply reintegrate them back into the original crew? Really? One might think an extended debriefing, reassignment, retraining, evaluation rest.rehab would be in the offing for both.

What about Trip? I don't seem to recall the military returning captives or MIAs back to their regular units promptly.

Hmmm, T'Pol is apparently suffering more damage than in the series with no intervention. One may wonder about long term effects and her ability to continue service should they survive and be returned home. What ever home is for them. Also one may wonder about issues for her reintegrating with Current Vulcan society considering her medical, mental, political and ideological changes. She definately is not the officer theVHC sent to observe the human crew any longer.
The VHC would be very interested in keeping control of the potential political, social and culteral bomb named T'Pol. The only place to get the medical help she needs is Vulcan, yet once she is there can she leave or is the same corrupt VHC in power? Perhaps they would consider tampering with her doctors orders? Do I hear potential mind wipe? From the VHC perspective it could solve so many potential problems.Sometimes going home isn't just that easy.

Any plans to continue or finish Endeavour?

Sadly I must say there has not been a great wealth of wonderful new authors and stories in a while. So I am quite happy to see one of the best return.

HtH