AU or Not AU?

[WarpGirl]

Grazie! Just so we understand that. Now does anyone have a wishlist for an AU?

[honeybee]

Okay, regarding Harbinger. I don't like that episode. BUT:

It wasn't casual sex. T'Pol just pretended it was. We know from later that they had formed a latent bond, so something serious must have gone on - before and during.

Vulcans may not have casual sex, but they do get attached to their mates and they certainly can develop romantic feelings - and are very passionate underneath all that Surak prescribed meditation. (Spock/Leila or Sarek/Amanda). And I tend to believe T'Pol had already become attached to Trip and sure as hell wasn't going to let him "bond" with MACO Amanda. So she marked her territory, if you will. She just was not quite ready to accept what she had done, drug addiction and all that rot.

Now, again, I hate the way the writers handled Harbinger, and I was never fond of the drug addiction plotline at all. But it was not un-Vulcan, if you consider Spock the most Vulcan of Vulcans because he had sex with Leila while under the influence of spores in "This Side of Paradise" - it may have gone against what conventional Vulcans did - but given that most of the Vulcans we've seen living off world (Spock, Sarek, T'Pol and even to a lesser extent Tuvok) tended to swerve a little from the traditional Vulcan path, to me showing a Vulcan struggle to maintain their logic is the most Vulcan thing you can do.

The thing I hated about the whole mess was the fact that T'Pol was dosing herself on Trellium to be more "human". I call that un-Vulcan. I love Vulcans and I think they are most interesting because they do struggle to maintain the logical path - and that is what makes them interesting. But I do think T'Pol knew she couldn't ever be human and would never have taken the drugs for that reason. If they had just said - she got dosed and then chemically addicted, that would have been way better.

I think it would be very boring if Vulcans were inherently perfectly logical and always followed Surak's teachings to the letter.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, I think that T-Pol seduced Trip to, as honeybee said, mark her territory, stake her claim. However it happened be it through the Neuropressue sessions or what she had already slected Trip. She had burned her bridges as far as Vulcan was concerned. She broke off with Koss or forced his parents to break if off. she was condemned for the Monestary being destoryed the Vulcans believing it ws her fault becuase she gave the andorians her PADD. She probably was convinced tyhat no vulcan Male would have her. Trip as a very interesting male even ifhe was Human. So, she took the step of mating with him. She said in bound that when a Vulcan Mates a physic bond is formed so she was believing she was mating with Trip that night in Harbinger. That is not casual for a vulcan. If she was doing it just to get her jolllies she might have taken on a few more of the Enterprise crew perhaps Archer. She did not and as far as we know she never had Sex with anyone else but trip. Harbiner was a mating with all that means for a vulcan. I have never believed that a Vulcan female has Pon Farr. She will respond to her husbands call to join him in his Pon Farr but cannot initiate on her own. she can however, initiate a mating. Different animal. I have often wondered if the vulcan Church may not have had some Nuns (Vestal virgins) who could step in and handle a Pon Farr if the mans wife could not make it back home in time. all legal of course and holy.

Sex can be used, abused, or loving. Depends on the peoplle.

[honeybee]

I tend to believe (as I wrote in Dusk) that a bond was already on its way to forming because of the neural pressure - and the sex just solidified it. And T'Pol was justifiably freaked out - not just because of the drug addiction but because of an instinct that a bond had formed, when she clearly didn't believe could form with a human. She went into denial mode.

She was in love with Trip (which I believe is supported by Similitude) and she was in the process of bonding with him when MACO Amanda came along. Thus, the territory marking. Her primal Vulcan instincts took over when she seduced Trip, and then she understandably freaked out and tried to behave like it meant nothing. But the dream in Damage says otherwise - there was passion. But in her mind the passion she felt was twisted up with her addiction and fear of becoming a zombie.

[Alelou]

Am I crazy, or wasn't Spock veeerrrry close to taking on Christine Chapel as a substitute for T'Pring in TOS? I certainly read that scene that way -- and at the time I was a virginal 14 year old who was going 'oh yuck' the whole time.

Or maybe the middle-aged brain is filling in sexier details than were there. I dunno. It's past my bedtime.

[Silverbullet]

Honeybee. I never bought in to that addiction stuff she could not have been that stupid. she knew what it could do. She had a taste of it once before when she was aboard the vulcan ship Shelya (sp). She knew what it could do to her. If she was as cooly logical as she was depicted to be I simply cannot see her making a mistake like that. Also belive that the Drug addiction had nothing to do with her seduction of trip. That was instintive on her part. She claimed trip in her mind and did it physically in the seduction. T-Pol's problem was that she didn't have the time to claim Trip the old fashioned way of becoming romantically involved with him without sex entring in to it, cole was too close. (I still believe it was a crappy move on the PTB and the writers to make her a druggie.)

[honeybee]

Honeybee. I never bought in to that addiction stuff she could not have been that stupid.

Totally agree!

On the one hand, I liked the idea of T'Pol becoming vulnerable. I love the character, but in the early seasons she saved the day by being the superior Vulcan very often. Then, just when Archer needs her most, she becomes vulnerable. I like that. But I really wish that it had been a more "Vulcan" metaphor for addiction - what we saw was too human.

Even if she had just been brain damaged by the incident on the Seleya, that would have been fine with me. And it would make sense that she would reach out to her de-facto mate, which was Trip thanks to the neural pressure.

But I don't believe T'Pol ever wanted to be human. I think she was jealous of humans at times, as humans were sometimes jealous of Vulcans. We see that in the great scene in The Forgotten. But T'Pol knew that she couldn't be human, so I don't buy that she would continue to try to access her emotions with drugs.

Now, if she had been trying to immunize herself against the trellium so the ship could be lined with it, that I could buy as a Vulcan move. Risking herself for the sake of the mission. But not playing with her emotions.

[Silverbullet]

Believe that T-Pol was in the Science Directorate. Also believe that it was stated in one episode that Vulcans had been experimentating with Trellium D for some decades. If that is so. t-Pol would have known very well of the dangers of it and that she could not handle it as the stuff was too dangerous for a Vulcan. As for the lining of the ship with TD, once the lining was in place the walls would be replaced and the TD would be covered and t-Pol would not be exposed to it unless the ship took a direct hit near her which would probably kill her. So trying to immunize herself would be foolish too. Believe that ARcher wanred T-Pol to avoid a Shuttle Pod because it was being lined with TD. I think though that she was once on a shuttle Pod that had a TD lining and nothinng happened to her. been a while so I get episodes mixed up with FanFics some times.

[honeybee]

Am I crazy, or wasn't Spock veeerrrry close to taking on Christine Chapel as a substitute for T'Pring in TOS? I certainly read that scene that way -- and at the time I was a virginal 14 year old who was going 'oh yuck' the whole time.

It's been a long while since I've seen Amok Time, but I think you were right. I think that was the only shot poor Nurse Chapel had to hit that, and it didn't happen! Instead, we got K/S wrestling.

I know T'Ping is portrayed as a manipulative little witch with a B, but I sympathize with her situation. I tend to think she had bonded with the other guy, and she was therefor not into poor Spock. Pon Farr sex doesn't sound fun if you're not telepathically linked.

[WarpGirl]

OK I am going to say this one LAST time and if anyone has a problem with it too bad, what I said before was this...

I DON'T think it was casual, just STUPID and not thought out, and it led to some serious trouble. But NOT CASUAL.

I never said anyone who didn't think the sex was stupid, was unentitled to their opinion. They are just like I am entitled to mine. Frankly I was trying to say what Honeybee obviously said better than me.

Now is the MU an AU or does it actually exist?

[pdsldl]

Seeings how the MU showed up in two Star Treks (Enterprise and TOS) I'd have to say it exist. To me AU is taking what exist in the RU and tweaking it outside of established canon.

[Asso]

Seeings how the MU showed up in two Star Treks (Enterprise and TOS) I'd have to say it exist. To me AU is taking what exist in the RU and tweaking it outside of established canon.

The same for me.

[honeybee]

MU was also a big part of DS9 - I think they did more mirror episodes than any show.

Mirror Universe - is the dark timeline/universe established in the TOS episode Mirror, Mirror - and all the MU episodes that followed on DS9 and Enterprise were in that timeline. By DS9 the evil terran empire we see in Enterprise has been overthrown and humans are slaves.

Canon AU could be any of the alternate timelines established by any of the shows. TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise or all of the ones in Parallels. The Visitor in DS9 or the Year of Hell in Voyager or the Twilight and E2 timelines in Enterprise. My story Dusk would be canon AU, except for one detail. I tried very much not to contradict the main plot line and still go TnT crazy.

That said, unless you are writing very strictly not to contradict canon - as Alelou does in her missing scenes - you are writing AU.

After reading The Romulan War, there is room for canon fic that fills in the time TnT spend together on Vulcan, so that wouldn't be AU as long as you believe the books are canon.

[WarpGirl]

The books are sketchy, sometimes they can be canon but most times not. Like the movies. I hate the way canon is so disorganized. Basically I just take and leave what works with the story I want to tell.

I labled my fic as AU because I changed a few details, T'Pol's reasoning for TD. And the sex in Harbinger. But so far it's little things like that. Later on I'll have some characters that are supposed to be dead, actually alive. And T'Pau's a lot older, otherwise I'm trying to be accurate. It's hard when you haven't seen every episode, and they're not playing on TV.

[honeybee]

I think other series are debatable, but given Margaret Clark's dedication to the relaunch and her attention to detail and her desire for Enterprise's story to be completed in the books since the series got cancelled prematurely - I see the Enterprise books as canon. Others may not, but that's all good.