"Enterprise: The Romulan War"

[Distracted]

Does anyone around here ever watch Joss Whedon's weird, problematic but interesting show Dollhouse?

SPOILER!!!:

Anyway, I think the the therapeutic mind melds that Y'Cha is giving Tetrix are probably influenced by the "treatments" given to the the "dolls" on that show. It's not a criticism, but it wouldn't shock me if Martin watched that show last season.

I liked Dollhouse last season. Haven't seen it yet this season. Is it coming back?

SPOILER!!!:

I can see Vulcans liking the concept of erasing traumatic memories as a treatment for post-traumatic stress. They're really into suppressing negative stuff rather than dealing with it.

[pdsldl]

Does anyone around here ever watch Joss Whedon's weird, problematic but interesting show Dollhouse?

SPOILER!!!:

Anyway, I think the the therapeutic mind melds that Y'Cha is giving Tetrix are probably influenced by the "treatments" given to the the "dolls" on that show. It's not a criticism, but it wouldn't shock me if Martin watched that show last season.

I liked Dollhouse last season. Haven't seen it yet this season. Is it coming back?

SPOILER!!!:

I can see Vulcans liking the concept of erasing traumatic memories as a treatment for post-traumatic stress. They're really into suppressing negative stuff rather than dealing with it.

SPOILER!!!:

Isn't this what they supposedly did to T'Pol according to events in The Seventh. Put her through the Fullara and wiped out her memories of killing because she couldn't deal with the guilt (PTSD)? Not to run away but because she was so overwhelmed she would not have recovered otherwise.

[WarpGirl]

Yep you're right pdsldl!

[honeybee]

Yes, Dollhouse is on this season. It's on Friday nights (sound familiar) and has very low ratings but a small, passionate audience.

I do think that memories being wiped was established in The Seventh, but it was also portrayed as imperfect.

SPOILER!!!:

And that is continued with the Terix plotline in the book. I do think Trip's justification for sticking around was a stretch (why not just inform T'Pau of what's going on and she can find someone they can trust in the V'Shar to take care of it? But I think that's part of the twisting and turning to justify why Trip never goes back to Earth until he's an old man.

[pdsldl]

I think the whole memory wipe thing is imperfect and T'Pol's memories were sparked by having to go into the same situation chasing the same fugitive and had she been on Vulcan after consulting a priest if her memories came back they would have most likely advised her to allow the ritual to be performed again.

SPOILER!!!:

The Terix deal was wiping out who he was in totality not just some of his bad memories so prolonged, repeated treatments would seem realistic. And they also must be implanting new memeories to convince him he's Vulcan. Vulcans seem to know more about how the brain works than we do but they don't understand everything either.
While I didn't buy the Trip staying on Vulcan plotline it seems like something he did to get where he needs to be and getting Trip on Vulcan for the long haul seems feasible. But that means he'd remain out of Starfleet and the crew of Enterprise working together (-Travis) seems less a possibility but if I have to choose between TnT together or the crew together again TnT wins hands down.

[honeybee]

SPOILER!!!:

If I were Martin, I would have Enterprise return to Vulcan so that Archer could assist T'Pau in documenting stuff about Surak's katra. The whole ship comes along, and then the new engineer is killed. And T'Pol's new Vulcan husband, Sodek steps in to take his place for the rest of the war - with no time to return to Earth. How he's going to get Travis back on the ship, I have no idea.

One of the narrative problems of the book was that the crew is scattered to the wind most of the time. They have been for three books now - I would like to see them all back together.

[Aikiweezie]

Yes, Dollhouse is on this season. It's on Friday nights (sound familiar) and has very low ratings but a small, passionate audience.

I do think that memories being wiped was established in The Seventh, but it was also portrayed as imperfect.

SPOILER!!!:

And that is continued with the Terix plotline in the book. I do think Trip's justification for sticking around was a stretch (why not just inform T'Pau of what's going on and she can find someone they can trust in the V'Shar to take care of it? But I think that's part of the twisting and turning to justify why Trip never goes back to Earth until he's an old man.

"In Last Full Measure" it indicates that Trip has never been to the memorial before but not that he hasn't been on Earth, unless I got that wrong. It also says something about him helping to raise Elena, the daughter of Selma Gutierrez, who was born in 2154, "The years after the Xindi crisis" that's really confusing. She's never been mentioned before has she? And it says that there were several familie that helped him keep his identity a secret. He wouldn't need to do that on Vulcan, not with human families. There is NO mention of T'Pol, or a family of his own, and that bothers me. However they work it out, I hope there's a "happily ever after" for T & T in future books and that his parents get to know that their son is still alive somehow.

[honeybee]

SPOILER!!!:

I'm not sure that Martin/Mangels were set on a happy ending for TnT when they wrote "Last Full Measure" - but after the latest book, I think they are now. And I think Martin said in an interview, that the fans want to see a happy ending there after getting so screwed in *the_abomination*. But that interview was after "Last Full Measure".

But I also think they'll stick to the basic story as laid out in "Last Full Measure" - though where T'Pol will fit, I don't know. It makes sense that Trip would return to Earth, as even in The Romulan War - he's not very good at pretending to be Vulcan.

[Silverbullet]

Think Trip's reason for not leaving with T-Pol was a little forced. Trip should have left with T-Pol and if the romulan guy finaly broke out then the Vulcans would find out how dangerous the Romulans were to them and join Earth in the war. I believe that Trip let a great opportunity go by to get Vulcans in the war.

Nice That TnT got to spend two weeks together in her home. also that both said "I Love you" when they parted.

[Reanok]

I wonder what's going to happen with Trip & T'Pol in the next book since both of them will be on Vulcan.

SPOILER!!!:

With all the chaos on Vulcan and after the attack on Mount Seleya and the destruction of Surak's Katra will cause all kinds of problems for T'Pau and her Syrannite government.Minister Kuvak is a bad guy like V'las. And who knows about Y'Cha I think she tampered with Trip's memories when it came to thir undercover mission at the Romulan shipyards. I think Sopek got away with both ships.i hope we get to see alot more of Trip & T'Pol working together in the next book. I also wonder what happens with Terix he can't be trusted if his past memories come back. and if he does remember everything he can cause major trouble for Trip .I also wonder what thoughts T'Pol uncovered in that mindmeld with Y'Cha and Terix and what she may later uncover it seems like it may play an important role in the next book.

[WarpGirl]

HOLD IT! In Vulcan Arc Kuvak is a good guy! When did that change? I liked Kuvak.

[Reanok]

SPOILER!!!:

Kuvak has gone behind T'Pau's back and is shipping weapons behind enemy lines without T'Pau's knowledge and is trying to upsurp her authority while she is on Mount Seleya communing with Surak's Katra.T'Pol tries to tell T'Pau her concens about Kuvak's weapon smuggling but she won't listen to T'Pol and she's going to regret not listening to T'Pol. Kuvak was smuggling weapons to enemies of the Romulan empire and Valdore finds out about it.Which in turn leads to the Romulan attack on mount Seleya killing the monk who was the keeper of Surak's Katra.

[WarpGirl]

I don't think I'd like these books. I liked Kuvak. Why do ENT writers screw up the good things? Shan's girlfriend, Kuvak, TnT, all the good things. Is it a mandate?

[honeybee]

SPOILER!!!:

Kuvak is a good guy in the books. He's trying to HELP the coalition while T'Pau, for reasons which make sense to her, wants to remain neutral. It's meant to show that good intentions can lead to bad things. One of the best things about the book is the multi-layered treatment of the Vulcan political situations - where both sides are presented as having pros and cons.

[Reanok]

I' m sorry for any confusion about Kuvak.I was wrong about Kuvak being a bad guy. This book has so many story threads with so many characters and storyarcs going on Vulcan it's easy to get confused about who the good guys and who the Villians are in this book.