AU or Not AU?

[WarpGirl]

I don't think Archer would make a good partner for anyone. He's too isolated in himself, in general. Some people are not suited to relationships. A story where T'Pol rejects Archer sounds interesting. The thing is, I want her to sound like T'Pol not some stanger.

[Dinah]

Honeybee, I thought you did an absolutely marvelous job of explaining things in "Dusk." The romance you created made perfect sense and was far more poignant than anything Sussman dreamed up.

Looking at things from Archer's viewpoint, he wakes up every day and he's either confined to his quarters (Earth is destroyed, someone else is sitting in his chair, and he's completely out of the loop in terms of the command structure -- people are polite, somewhat uncomfortable around you and no one pays attention to you or what you have to say) or your planetside (Earth is destroyed, you're not on board Enterprise where you should be, someone else is in command, and you're completely removed from your comfort zone -- and once again no one pays attention to what you or what have to say). How could any writer see this scenario as the basis for a great romance?

I don't know about Archer, but if someone told me what T'Pol tells Archer every day, I'd be pretty upset. I wouldn't feel better in 30 minutes or an hour or even twelve hours. And I certainly wouldn't be looking for romance. And any feelings you might generate on day one are gone by day two. There could never be a romance between Archer and T'Pol, but Archer's illness makes it impossible for a romance to develop. So unless they're in a passionate romance when the anomaly hits, their romance could never "evolve." Phlox's statement to T'Pol could never be about Archer; it had to refer to the current captain of Enterprise, Tucker.

[honeybee]

it had to refer to the current captain of Enterprise, Tucker.

I suppose you could interpret it that way - but I think it's clear that both Sussman and Phlox meant Archer. But I interpret that line as Phlox being wrong. In Dusk, Soval and Phlox, and we can assume others, believe that T'Pol is involved with Archer. They are just wrong. Malcolm, Hoshi and most of the active crew are the ones that know the truth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Alelou]

Yep, I like Honeybee's version. I really do think there's no other way of interpreting how Phlox meant it, but T'Pol's responding look certainly invites the possibility that she's burying some un-Vulcan revulsion at the idea.

[WarpGirl]

Honeybee, Dinah you're both brilliant!

[Reanok]

Well said Dinah& Honeybee i really think you got to the heart of what the story is all about.

[Asso]

I posted this as a comment on your latest story, "Dusk", but I wanted also people can read it here.

"Twilight" is a strange episode in my opinion. I don't want to speak of its qualities, better not to talk about that.
But, what hell meant it? Or rather, what hell would it have wanted to mean?
An AU where T'Pol and Archer would love each other?
It doesn't seems so, to me.
An AU where T'Pol sacrifice herself for Archer in the name of the friendship between her and him? In the name of the consideration that his illness is indirectly due to her, because Archer didn't leave her when the anomaly struck?
Damn, what a logical Vulcan, I would say, in this case.
More. Is "Twilight" an AU of the lost opportunities? Of what could happen and, at the same time, of what couldn't happen?
Honestly, for me "Twilight" is only an enormous mess, furthermore showed just when spectators are expecting for the series' follow-on, and it breaks off stupidly the tension.
So, considering these premises from my part, you, Honeybee, have to understand the real apprehension with wich I approached this story, and even more in the light of the fact that, as you know, AU are not exactly my forte.

OKAY. All that said, thank goodness I read this first chapter. BRAVO!
I don't want to read your story on FFNET. I prefer to discover every chapter here, as you will post them on TS.

[WarpGirl]

Part of the reason I don't get Twilight is because T'Pol isn't exactly a logical Vulcan in her reasoning. But what else is new, in season 3 they tried to rip any trace of a logical Vulcan from her. Let's just mention that Robbie McNiell directed, and he is absolutely brilliant at that.

[honeybee]

Well, I do look forward to all your comments on Dusk, Asso. I'm glad you liked the story so far - we shall see. There are number of things that happen - especially to the other crew members - that I am curious to see your reaction to as well.

And Warpgirl, I think on one level in Twilight, T'Pol is being very Vulcan. She believes Archer spared her from the anomaly and the illness that plagues him. So, she believes caring for him is her duty. That I get, as Vulcans are very much about honor. Twisting that into romantic feelings doesn't quite set as well with me, thus my "episode" fix.

[WarpGirl]

Oh yes I agree that to her that it would be her duty to take care of Archer ABSOLUTELY! But I do not believe that she would think it was logical to blame herself for his illness. That's a totally different thing. But that's what TPTB portrayed at least it looked that way from the synonpses, and everything I read. Anyway you're still brilliant so what does it matter.

[Pitseleh]

To answer the original question, I don't have a problem with AUs or MUs as long as they are well written. As Escriba stated a couple of pages ago, most fic ends up being AU either way, unless they are episode additions that manage to fit within canon. Some of my favorite fics of all time, like HopefulRomantic's Reconnecting series, or Rigil Kent's Endeavour series are AUs, and they are outstanding, even if they are poles apart. Then, you could always claim that fics that take place post-Terra Prime are not AUs since *the_abomination* is not ENT's real finale, but that would be a personal opinion (one which my father and I share).

Regarding Twilight, I watched it once or twice, and I don't like it. Even though the implication of an Archer and T'Pol relationship is downplayed, it is still creepy. First of all, I never thought those two would be compatible besides a friendship. Second, the idea of a romance with a person who is disconnected from his reality and has no memory of any development in any interactions with someone else makes no sense whatsoever. Third, T'Pol's actions during the episode are questionable and quite illogical; the whole thing is too close to OOC for the resident Vulcan.

[WarpGirl]

I think in season three nobody was really concerned with keeping T'Pol in character as the "resident Vulcan" which ticks me off. BUT you're nicer about an Archer/T'Pol friendship. I don't even see a real true healthy friendship between them.

[Pitseleh]

True, T'Pol was all over the place starting on Season 3. I could go on a very long rant about how T'Pol, my favorite character, was criminally abused as a character during the entire show. I have to admit that my respect for Jolene Blalock increased since she actually managed to play a character that was heading one direction one day and an entirely different direction the other day.

About T'Pol's interactions with Archer, I want to think that characters can develop past their flaws, which is why I give the possibility of a friendship between them credit. What makes this difficult, though, is that Archer was never really shown trying to learn about T'Pol as much as he was shown attempting to make T'Pol accept Human culture. While Trip did show interest in her by trying to integrate her to the crew and learning about her culture later on the show, that was not Archer's case. I actually thought it was very sad how T'Pol had become such a different person from whom she once was in Twilight. Down the road, I think that's what would have to happen for an Archer/T'Pol relationship, as disgusting as it is to me, to work: she'd have to sacrifice way too much of herself.

[WarpGirl]

Oh that's too perfect!

[Silverbullet]

I coulld never warm to the Archer Character. In RU, AU or MU. He was never sympathetic in my view. I guess it is the Character was seen too much we never got a rest from him. Also the other Characters were diiminshed so he could be made to look larger. The sidekick Polly irritated me as it was not necessary. Too he became Super Archer by Season three probablly before that.

For the life of me I simply cannnot see T-Pol in any situation becoming romanticaly involved with Archer. I cannot see her abidcating her duty to the Eterprise, Crew, and Mission to care for Archer as a duty. After all "the needs of the many....." take precedence for a Vulcan.