New Fanfic Up!

[Aquarius]

Whoops! I KNEW I originally came here for an on-topic reason.

Shore Leave by Asso is up.

Chapter 6 of Healing to Your Life by pdsldl is up.

Enjoy!! And keep 'em coming--you guys didn't keep me NEARLY as busy this shift as you did last time! Time to light a fire under y'all...

[WarpGirl]

OMG I forgot the Prompt!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang it! OK I'm glad we've got new stuff to read.

[Aquarius]

But you could also say that they started shaving to please the gods, and it ended up taking care of the bugs. Either way both are true.

Anthropologically, not so much. Necessity is usually the mother of invention...and man usually doesn't react until he needs to, as in he has a problem that needs solving, like being infested with itchy bugs.

From this article:

Due to the climate, Egyptians were fixated on cleanliness - so much so that foreigners (thought to be dirty) and those who didn't have access to much personal hygiene were despised. Men and woman shaved and plucked off all of their body hair using tweezers, knives and razors, be them of flint or metal (they used oil as shaving lotion - moisturising oils were also rubbed into the skin as protection against the harsh, hot climate). Not only was this for beauty, but it also rid the Egyptians of body lice.

This article is also very interesting, and doesn't mention the gods once.

Must stop researching fun history now and get on the stuff I actually need to do for class. Bummer!

[Silverbullet]

Wasn't Body and hair lice known in the middle ages and were responsible for some epidemics?
It was my understand that the poor wore clothing every day until it had to be cut off them so the could put on another outfit that they would wear for a year. Body Lice took hold because they did not bathe unless they fell into some water or was caught in a downpour. Damn, just thiking of Body LLice makes me want to itch.

[Aquarius]

Well, there are some misconceptions about body and hair lice, and hygiene. Shampooing alone isn't enough to get rid of them--if it were, you wouldn't need to buy a special shampoo even in this day and age to treat it. You may drown the individual bugs, but the eggs still stick to the hair.

Also, in beauty school, we learned that lice actually prefers clean hair. The eggs can't stick as well to oily hair. In combating lice, combing is actually your friend, moreso than shampoo, because a really fine-toothed comb helps to remove the eggs.

Dirty people don't just spontaneously develop lice. You have to be in contact with someone or something that has it, which is why in schools they discourage the sharing of coats and hats. Also, I'd heard (though I've seen no official study on this) that movie theater seats are a common point of transmission for head lice.

Those rare instances I've seen in the salon where we've turned someone away for having lice, it was generally a school kid, but regardless of age, they all "looked" clean, and not "dirty." Socioeconomic background didn't seem to matter either, as I work in "middle class" suburban Detroit--people have their financial problems out here due to the economy and the auto industry, but generally the folks out here are educated and were upwardly mobile until things collapsed, and not the skid-row types you think of as being "dirty" enough to have lice.

[WarpGirl]

Aquarius believe me I know all of that. But as much as that is true 99% of the scholars out there have stated that every aspect of Egyptian society from government to hygine was driectly intertwined with their spirituality. I assure you hair removal is apart of that. There was a whole documentery on the history channel explaining the way ancient religion permiated society and they also talked bout hair removal. But I will have fun reading these articals. Thank you.

[Aquarius]

I'm not saying that their spirituality wasn't involved, WG, I'm just pointing out that the cause and effect has become somewhat skewed in terms of "common knowledge".

This from egyptologyonline.com:

Both men and women would often shave their hair and wear wigs. From at least the time of the New Kingdom, priests shaved off all of their body hair, most likely as a precaution against lice, whose presence would have been considered as unacceptably offensive whilst they were ministering to the gods.

And this passage also brings up another important factor: "Ancient Egypt" covers a long, long time, so what they did and why they did it depends on if you're talking about people of the Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, or New Kingdom, or the Dark Periods in between.

Anthropologically speaking, the lice was the problem first. They solved the problem by getting rid of their hair. Then they had to deal with "Oh crap, now I'm bald." So they started wearing wigs for protection, and eventually, just like clothing through the ages and today, they were used for decoration and to reflect their social status--the fancier the hair, the fancier the person. Yes they were used for ceremonial purposes, but it wasn't anything much deeper than us "dressing up" for church today--it's our "Sunday Best" to show respect for the church, etc., as they were showing respect for their gods by either appearing bald (as some priests did through some periods of Ancient Egypt) or by wearing their best wigs. But spiritually, it's more comparable to our modern-day saying "cleanliness is next to godliness"--they believed their gods wanted them to take good care of themselves, and part of that meant not having bugs. But if they didn't have the bug problem in the first place, then they would have had no reason to really address that in their spirituality. See the distinction?

P.S. Anyone besides me and Silverbullet starting to get grossed out by the lice thing??? Bleeeeeech!! Maybe it's time to go read that new fanfic or something....got to get rid of these mental pictures of bugs before I go in and work on other people's hair today. *shudder*

[Alelou]

Aquarius makes a good point. Anthropologists and scientists sometimes point at Leviticus, which has so many rules that still affect observant Jews and Muslims today, and do some pragmatic reasoning:

If pigs often cause illness and death because of trychinosis (don't quote me on the spelling), decreeing them impure is actually a matter of public safety. Ditto shellfish.

In other words, 'sacred' beliefs and practices often arise from very practical considerations.

Incense was thought to purify the air and keep people safe from disease... today a 'high' church uses it simply because it has become custom.

Maybe women were isolated during their monthly cycles (as in Leviticus) because (and I know SilverBullet will appreciate this), they were a pain to be with then ... or maybe it was because that was when they were actually most vulnerable to infection. It eventually became all about 'purity' but it might have started as a matter of protection.

There's a lot of this stuff in our daily lives. If there's something we do out of politeness or custom, often there was originally a very pragmatic reason for it.

[Aquarius]

Whoops, missed this. Think I accidentally erased it out of my initial reply to this post. Sorry.

Really! Hmm. Never watched it, maybe I'll ask my cosmetoligist (her word) sister. But didn't that start almost 10 years ago?

Yes, Sex and the City started in 1998.

As someone who was a 20-something in the 90s, and who started her cosmetology education in 1995, I can tell you that American women have been removing excess hair from faces, underarms, legs, etc. for a long, long time. No news there, right?

In terms of being hairless "down there," for both men and women, it more accurately started with the porn industry, but for obvious reasons retained many taboos, so what I SHOULD'VE said is that my industry credits Sex and the City for mainstreaming and legitimizing it for regular everyday people (especially women), as well as many other (ahem) personal items and habits.

And "hairer" women have been getting rid of or bleaching their arm hair since the mid 90s at least. I saw it a lot when I assisted in a salon in Ann Arbor after school.

[WarpGirl]

OK No more lice. Alelou you're absolutely right that Liviticus' strict law code had mostly to do with practical concerns of dealing with a nomadic nation of well more than 6 million at that time. But it was also a matter of obedience. The same as it was in ancient Egypt when you shaved before you went in before the Pharao, respect for the God or gods you serve. They're not separate according to those belief systems.

[Aquarius]

or maybe it was because that was when they were actually most vulnerable to infection. It eventually became all about 'purity' but it might have started as a matter of protection.

There's a lot of this stuff in our daily lives. If there's something we do out of politeness or custom, often there was originally a very pragmatic reason for it.

We're already so off-topic (yes, I'm guilty), so what the hell...

I've read recently in women's magazines like Cosmo and Glamour that during our cycles, it's common for our allergy symptoms to be more pronounced, to a point where our usual little sniffle might lead us to believe we're coming down with a cold or worse. So with that little factoid in mind, there's probably a LOT more to what you just said than you thought!

[WarpGirl]

That happens to my aunt and sister. Me I just spiked fevers. Don't ask me why. I don't remember who started the OTness but Elessar joined in. So I guess if it's ok with the boss...

[Aquarius]

OK No more lice. Alelou you're absolutely right that Liviticus' strict law code had mostly to do with practical concerns of dealing with a nomadic nation of well more than 6 million at that time. But it was also a matter of obedience. The same as it was in ancient Egypt when you shaved before you went in before the Pharao, respect for the God or gods you serve. They're not separate according to those belief systems.

Again, it's the same as dressing up for church. But, our society's diverse religious beliefs aside, clothing has a much more secular function than a religious one. You're supposed to clean up and dress up for church out of respect for yourself, those who have to sit by you, and for god. However "dressing up" is subjective, as even the wearing of jeans has become common in some churches, as long as they're clean and not all holy (the bad kind of holy that is), etc. A person today can be immaculately clean and well-dressed, but that doesn't mean their butt's seen the business end of a pew any time recently, so while we value dressing up for religion, you can't really label religion and clothing as being tied together.

So religion wasn't any more the sole motivation for a nice appearance and good hygiene for the ancient Egyptian, either. They did it out of self-respect, respect for others (including the Pharaoh and the gods), personal comfort, and social status, just like we do today. Respect for the gods was a secondary reason for the shaving, as they wouldn't go worship all buggy or dirty any more than you'd go to church in that condition.

[WarpGirl]

I don't think I can explain my point without it being taken as arguemenative or trouble making so I guess I'll give up.

[Alelou]

Yes, we've buried poor Asso and pdsldl's announcement well and truly. So anyone just skimming -- yes, in fact, there is new fanfic up on the fanfic page.