T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

I like that theory.

Silverbullet I hate to sound like a nagging girl but you're being a man about this. Yes I get the fact that Trip was heartbroken but the fact is she had NO CLUE she WAS breaking his heart UNTIL AFTER he left. From her point of view she wasn't fit to be his mate at the time. Therefore TO HER the loving thing to do would be NOT TO burden him. This wasn't some cold calculated plan to crush Trip's heart into a billion pieces. She wanted him to have the best of herself not the mess she was. In The Anear she was being a Superior Officer THAT IS HER JOB! It was in no way personal and she WAS in fact very moved by his concern. I know because I'm a woman and I know the signs. It wasn't the right time for Trip to let his emotions get in the way and she was trying to keep him on the job at hand. She wasn't rejecting him, she was doing her job, lives depended on it. Also remeber she's a Vulcan, most of what Vulcans say sounds cold and unfeeling but it's NOT TRUE. In order to get the full picture of what happened you need to see BOTH perspectives.

Do I think Trip had a right to be hurt, and angry? OF COURSE! Do I think T'Pol was a callous heartbreaker? NO! She was very very much in love. And most of the time she felt she couldn't be what he needed. Let me tell you something, she was in just as much if not MORE pain than Trip was at times.

[Silverbullet]

That is as it was with Trip and T-Pol we are looking at it as amale and a female. Well so were Trip and T-Pol add in that T-Pol was a Vulcan female and you have a lot of misunderstanding, misconceptions and mistakes.

The best thing was for T-Pol t be open with trip so he could be open with her. So he could declare everything to her to ask her to let him in to stay. If she had just opened up and not worried if she was fit. he loved her and be damned if she ws not perfect and could not fill what she thought he needed. He needed HER the rest could take care of itself over time just as long as he had her.

Waiting until she thought she was the perfect mate was wrong. Showing him that she was willing to come to him out of love even if she wasn't the perfect mate yet was right.

Trip would have been honored t have her and to help her to become what she thought she should be if she let him.

So she had a broken wing that would not keep trip away it would just make him want to be near her even more as it gave him a chance to help her.

[WarpGirl]

I KNOW! We know this but they didn't and that's the point. T'Pol didn't do anything wrong, neither did Trip. But the fact is they didn't understand each other. It happens but T'Pol isn't a cruel heartbreaker.

[Silverbullet]

NOT deliberately. But she should have seen what she was doing after the third or fourth time she stomped on his heart.

When he asked for a Transfer that was way OOC for him. He loved Enterprise. It was his home. That was his Engine room and those were his Engens. He would never leave them without some cause and it was obvious that the cause was not Enterprise or his Engine room. so, that leaves only one thing. T-POL. she had no need to come in and ask him if he was leaving because of her. why else would he be leaving everythig that meant the world to him.

She should have come in saying DON'T LEAVE ME. I NEED YOU and I LOVE YOU!. that is all he needed to hear. Had she said that a lot earlier he would never had reqested the transfer off the ship.

HOw much further did she expect him to go? How much more did she expect him to take?

With her vulcan Logic she should have known that there were TWO people involved not just her two hearts invloved not just hers. she ignored all of that.

so no not Deliberate but callous in her one way of looking at things. Never even taking him into consideeration.

[WarpGirl]

<sigh> There is the little fact that he LIED to her. OK yeah I know busted heart, full of angst, blah, blah, blah... She DID ask, "Are you leaving because of me?" He said NO! Now did she know he was lying? Probably, she's not THAT obtuse. But to her he was saying, "You had your chance it's OVER! I DO NOT WANT YOU!" We're talking about a VULCAN WOMAN! That is the logical conclusion.

Look I'm not saying you're wrong, because you're right. But so am I. T'Pol is a woman, and she's Vulcan there is no way she could have possibly seen what she was doing was wrong. I'm really not upset that they put the whole mess in there, I'm MAD because they never fixed it and gave them a chance.

[Silverbullet]

What was he supposed to Say? Yeah I am leaving because you are a Bitch that constnatly stomps on my heart. Pushes and pulls me. Seduces me and then tells me it was an exploration! Marries another man and expects me to take that too even to acting as if it is all right. Then when you get a divorce and it looks like we can build a relationship you tell me to get lost again. Of course I am leaving because of you. I am sick and tired of getting hurt and burned. NO MORE.

Instead he just says that the world doesn't revolve around or rather that his world doesn't revolve around her. than asks her if she is going to attend his going away party in the Mess hall.

When she leaves she looks hurt. But she had a chance right then to come out and reveal her feelings, try to explain why she did him badly all of those times as she didn't believe that a vulcan and a Human could ever be and that now that she was going to lose him she knew
better. NOPE.

[WarpGirl]

OK deep breaths... The reason she didn't come out and say all of that was because it would have been illogical for her to do so. He made his choice, he had gone to the Captain, requested the transfer, accepted his new orders, the deal was done. She assumed that it was too late, he wasn't going to stay even if she did say those things. Human? NOPE. Vulcan? YES! And I'm sorry she wasn't a you-know-what, she wasn't heartless, or callous. She cared about him more than any other person living or dead at that point. But she can't change who and what she is. And it's not fair to ask her to do that. IF Trip had said all of that, I garentee they wouldn't have left his room until she had given him EVERYTHING! It's the Vulcan way, and as a girl, I know that's usually what we do when we love someone THAT much.

[Silverbullet]

Okay, because she is vulcan. but didn't she fall back on that too much? Handy ittle excuse when you dump on the guy. It is because I am vulcan that I am doing this or not doing this.

HOw about because I am a woman who loves Hell out of you that I am going to be open and honest.

She exhibted that she was woman often over and above being a vulcan.

If she could hero worship Archer she damned sure should have been able to be honest with
Trip. A whole lot esieer.

You are a female so you know how a female would act. Then can you explain how a female can stay with an abusive Husband/boy firend even to refusing to testify against him and being warned that he was very dangerous. Hanging on to hiim until he kills her and her children?

Illogical.

T-Pol was not acting as a female. Hormones do play a part even in Vulcans and hormones should have told her that Trip was the guy who she wanted to father her children to be her lifes mate. so the female in her should have overcome that vulan Junk and opened up to him even if it meant humiltarting herself to get his forgiveness for all of the pain she had caused
him.

[WarpGirl]

You're forgetting that this woman comes from a culture where men literally KILL before letting anything get between them and their mates, even if that thing IS their mates. She can't just switch the Vulcan on and off, anymore than she can switch the woman on and off, and when those two things are in conflict... Well, let's just say THEY BOTH screwed up. How is she supposed to know how to love a human male. No Vulcan woman had ever done so before. The only time Vulcans at that time mated outside their spieces was when they can't get back to Vulcan to resolve their Pon Farr, and anoth Vulcan isn't available. Since women can't contract Pon Farr on their own, there's no way T'Pol can fully understand what Trip needs.

As to women in abusive relationships, every situation is unique... However these women are usually convinced in some way that they either deserve what they get, or there is ABSOLUTELY no way to get out.

[Silverbullet]

Perhaps I am expecting too much of t-Pol. I may be forgetting that she is primariy vulcan.

But I cannot get over this feeling that the woman i her would take priority. Her need for Trip to be her lifes mate which she must have felt at some level.

Men hang it all out and expect a woman to do the same. Never happens. there is always somethng that a woma holds in reserve. that is why Men are confused about women at times. they don't understnd why women need to have that thing in reserve. It is their excape exit.

Ever seen a guy who has just had his head handed to him on a platter. He looks like Smoky th Bear watching all of the forests burn down. He doesn't know what happened or why. he is too stunned to think. later on he will figure it out but not at the time.

I got my head handed to me on a platter in front of god and evrybody. It was set up so well.
I walked right in to it. NOt suspecting a damned thing. Still don't know why altough I have figured how.

Then the dmaned female had the guts to send me a big fat letter. I tossed it in the garbage without reading it. Nothing she could say would interest me and she may have been trying to play me again.

So Tri may have had his headhanded to him.

So,

[WarpGirl]

Eh from your point of view she was pretty awful, and that is FINE! I'm just putting other points of view out there. Different cultures facinate me real or made up, and I'm a girl so I have an inside track there. Like I said Trip's feelings are completely valid, I don't deny that, but he made mistakes too. Hmmm I hope you don't regret tossing the letter.

[Alelou]

I have a soft spot for Trip and T'Pol's communication difficulties. My husband and I almost never made it past the point about a week into our courtship when he said goodbye without a kiss and just said "Well... keep in touch." LOL. He really meant it, and as a Puerto Rican it didn't occur to him what connotations that had ... meanwhile I thought I'd been kicked in the stomach. I went to work the next day totally dazed and asked my friends, "What the hell just happened there? Do you think maybe he really, really hated the cream of broccoli soup?"

[WarpGirl]

Oh I totally get where you're coming from. My ex-boyfriend and I sometimes had the most hysterical misunderstandings, and there wasn't even a culture difference to deal with. He'd say these things that to him were completely benign meanwhile I was like what the heck is going on here? I guess you could say we ended because of a communication problem, I didn't understand how he could propose (unofficially) and then say "I'm not ready honey." And he still wanted to string me along! I said, "I love you but NO!"

Relationships are hard, add gender issues, and spieces differences, they get harder.

[Silverbullet]

REgret tossing that letter? Not in the least. We had split the Blanket. what she did was so dilberate and she did it front of the whole damned communty and I had to face them for two weeks while she was visiting. No, there was nothing in that letter that coould have possibly intersted me.

You are right about relationships. NOt easy to start and often hard to maintain. but they can never survive such a deliberate stab in the back and heart.

Trip just had to deal with a woman from a different species who neverltheless cared for him deeply but was unable to express that in language he could understand, yet.

[WarpGirl]

<sigh of relief> So we understand each other at last! I was getting worried.