The Whine thread.

[Alelou]

It's scary, isn't it? Those people can be so very hard to identify because they almost always seem very charming. I can remember the worst boss from hell I ever had. She seemed quite jolly at first. I remember how the sales people came up and said, "Oh, it must be so much fun working with her!" Shudder. I still have nightmares about that woman.

[Aquarius]

Yeah, a lot of people thought Ted Bundy was a swell guy for years, too. I think the part that trips me out about that one is how here he was, a serial killer, who sat next to an off-duty police officer one or two evenings a week, working a crisis hotline!! NO ONE figured out what kind of monster that guy was for the longest time. If someone like that can camouflage himself from so many people--even members of law enforcement--then think of how easy it is for lesser snakes in the grass to appear normal and non-threatening.

[Escriba]

Well, that's because he was a psycho and when you are one you can act as a normal Human better than anybody else. Because there are not feelings that could hinder you.

Usually backstabbers aren't like that, they're very insecure and hurt people in a way that there couldn't be harm for them because they're afraid of them (afraid in the sense of thinking they are rivals because they're better, more intelligent and more suited for the job than the backstabber; which they usually are.) I should know, I began to lead that way. But stopped in time (I think.) I still had some tendencies, like playing down what I do or diminishing the quality of my work to look more humble than I am or exerciting the subtle emotional blackmail of doing something for someone when that person didn't ask me to do it to make that person feel indebted to me. Sounds familiar? I do it because I am highly insecure, but I could use it to harm people and believe me, I'm very aware of it.

But the thing is I'm not aware while I'm doing it. Making myself lower is subsconcious. And right now it's really impossible for me to do something without beginning with a "I know it isn't good..." or "I know it's nothing..." or "It sucks but..." It's really annoying and I try to prevent it, but I can't, usually.

Well, this looks like I'm a calculating witch and that anything I do for others has always a deep meaning. Which is not the truth (most of the times ) But it was just to show you that, yeah, apparently nice people aren't always nice.

[Alelou]

Yes, some backstabbers are mostly just insecure -- I've known plenty of those. But they tend to be less good at it, frankly. I mean, you tend to catch them out faster. The true sociopaths can fool people a lot longer -- they only really 'come out' to their victims, and they pick those carefully.

I think there are also just people who really, truly believe that it's a dog-eat-dog world and they'll do anything to get ahead because that's what it takes/that's the American way/selfishness is a virtue, whatever. They're proud of their ruthlessness, and aren't the least bit embarrassed about making people spy on their colleagues, or setting people up, or behaving brutally just to wear someone down. They think it will take them to the top. And I suppose they are, at least, consistent. But God help you if you work for them and you're not one of their trusted minions. I think that was my boss from hell. I could have rolled over and shown her my belly and licked her feet and probably could have survived since she appreciated my output if not my lack of subservience, but instead I just got the hell out of there. Which was just as well, since that group soon tanked anyway and she never did make it to the top of anywhere in that company.

[Escriba]

Oh, did you have to bear the "with everything I've done for you" speech or you escaped it?

[Alelou]

Oh, no she never bothered with that, because she wouldn't be caught dead doing anything for anyone beneath her, although I'm sure she found ways to reward her own special hires for their loyalty in helping her get her targets fired. We even caught her minions listening in and forwarding voice mails to her as she was loading up her ammo to go after people. (I had a big advantage in that our poorly-insulated offices adjoined so I could listen in to some of her plotting.)

This is a woman who had a giant picture of herself in her wedding dress as the main item of decor in her living room. Not her and her husband. Just her. Over the fireplace. It was the focal point of the room. After I saw that, I finally realized that what I was dealing with was more than just a particularly ruthless and efficient businesswoman. She actually told our catalog vendor to his face that he was being fired because he hadn't sucked up to her enough with gifts and flattery. And the thing is, she wouldn't have been the least bit embarrassed about that. She thought that was the true path to success.

[Ezinma88]

The question then becomes "how on earth can you safely navigate a workplace full of dog-eat-dog types, without sacrificing your dignity/values?"

I think I may have done a little bit of both over the years. Take the case I posted earlier, about the backstabber who got a co-worker fired and scuppered my chances of a promotion. I didn't tell the whole newsroom about his schemes. I didn't tell him to go to hell. I don't think that I changed my outward attitude towards him at all. We had one pretty in-depth conversation about his behaviour - during which he managed to blame everyone else in the newsroom for his actions - and then that was it.

Internally, I knew that he was far too valuable a source of information for me to simply cut out of my work-life. Even if you're determined not to bitch or backstab YOURSELF, I think it's foolish to completely ignore office politics. This may sound slightly ridiculous, but newsrooms are like battlegrounds....it's better to go in with as many alliances as possible. Alliances lead to contract extensions, favourable stories and working conditions. I didn't like Mr Backstabber anymore so I made a conscious decision to use him.

Every now and then, I just can't help laughing at how ludicrous it all is. I hate what my job has done to my mindset! I don't like backstabbers....but I have to admit that I AM more than willing to use someone, in order to get ahead. As long as I'm not damaging their chances, then I think it's fair game.

Mr Backstabber and I are still in touch....even though we no longer work for the same company. He's given me information about colleagues and job opportunities that I would never have had access to otherwise. It's a real love-hate acquaintance.

P.S. Alelou, how on earth did you end up at your boss' house, given the state of your relationship?!

[panyasan]

This is a woman who had a giant picture of herself in her wedding dress as the main item of decor in her living room. Not her and her husband. Just her. Over the fireplace. It was the focal point of the room.

You must be glad you're not working for her anymore!

[Alelou]

She was out on maternity leave and needed me to bring her stuff. Easier to berate me in person that way, too. That was her explanation later, when I said I'd had enough -- hormones. Bullshit.

I don't think she really knew how much I despised her until I negotiated a severance to get the hell out of there. Actually not even then, since she immediatly hired me as a consultant, had me training the whole sales force in new product, and worked me like a demon until the other position I was switching to officially opened. (It was all within the same big corporation.) But since I didn't really work for her anymore, the bullying totally stopped. That was eye-opening.

Alliances are important in work, and we'd been a pretty close-knit group before she came in. I think that was part of the problem -- I had to watch her go in and systematically terrorize and drive out my friends and colleagues and could only offer support privately. It was traumatizing. We had all worked long, hard hours together trying to get this struggling operation back on its feet and we'd really felt like a team, until she blew in. But I was professional with her, for the most part. Not entirely. I'm still sometimes a little embarrassed about some of my behavior with her, but she just pissed me off so badly. She's still part of the network of people I'm hooked into professionally, but I can't bring myself to ever contact her personally even though I suppose there's an outside chance it could pay off in some work. Life's just too short to ever deal with that woman again, if I can possibly avoid it. I don't even deal very often with people who merely worked with her, just because of that. I figure if they were willing to work closely with someone like that, they can't really be people you can trust not to take advantage of you.

[Aquarius]

Well, that's because he was a psycho and when you are one you can act as a normal Human better than anybody else. Because there are not feelings that could hinder you.

Usually backstabbers aren't like that, they're very insecure and hurt people in a way that there couldn't be harm for them because they're afraid of them (afraid in the sense of thinking they are rivals because they're better, more intelligent and more suited for the job than the backstabber; which they usually are.)

True, but I've also known/worked with some backstabbers who seemed pretty sociopathic in their own right. It isn't always insecurity. Sometimes it's just plain cruelty and lack of conscience.

[WarpGirl]

Sounds like my 12 year old cousin. Little devil smashed my knee with a basketball to see if it would hurt me. Just because my nurosystem is screwed up, I'm sorry I ever took care of him as a baby.

[panyasan]

She's still part of the network of people I'm hooked into professionally, but I can't bring myself to ever contact her personally even though I suppose there's an outside chance it could pay off in some work. Life's just too short to ever deal with that woman again, if I can possibly avoid it. I don't even deal very often with people who merely worked with her, just because of that. I figure if they were willing to work closely with someone like that, they can't really be people you can trust not to take advantage of you.

I can relate to this. You are on your guard with some people, because your trust in them is gone.

[CX]

Sounds like my 12 year old cousin. Little devil smashed my knee with a basketball to see if it would hurt me. Just because my nurosystem is screwed up, I'm sorry I ever took care of him as a baby.

Uff-da, that kid needs professional help now, before he becomes a serial killer. Kid'll probably start torturing animals before too long.

[Linda]

As a union steward I ran into a few management people who fit this selfish psycho-scociopath mold while aiding employees at disciplinary hearings. I burned out on this thankless job after only a few years. Seems they love to have positions where they can pin people like an insect to a piece of paper and with a smile, watch them squirm.

[Alelou]

The most common professions for sociopaths: teacher, priest/minister, counselor/psychiatrist.

All fields where your victim is largely at your mercy, but you can continue to charm others into thinking you are the salt of the Earth.

There's a great book about this: The Sociopath Next Door.