Misanthropic's new story - Reflecting To You

[CoffeeCat]

[pookha]

:popcorn:

well seeing this twice now kinda tells me to pause for the moment.
i was just trying to say how i saw thingsl, not be part of some type of side show .

[Zane Gray]

Okay, perhaps a change in subject is in order. We seem to have strayed down a heavily-trodden and touchy path.

Misanthropic, when do you expect Chapter Four to be posted? I'm curious to see how RealU Trip and T'Pol will react to MU T'Pol, and vise versa. I wonder if Trip will feel the bond with MU T'Pol, and if she will be interested in him romantically, being so different from her own Trip.

[CoffeeCat]

:popcorn:

well seeing this twice now kinda tells me to pause for the moment.
i was just trying to say how i saw thingsl, not be part of some type of side show .

Oh don't worry about me. If you want my input, I'm actually agreeing with everything you said about the fic.

The popcorn was directed to the rest of the thread:

That ingenious bit about fan fiction writers having the right to write whatever they want is soooo TRUE. So true, in fact, that I'm wondering why it was even said here because we all already know it.

But fan fiction writers ALSO have the right to receive constructive feedback without the peanut gallery pointing out the obvious to the reader who gives it. For example, I just got this bit from a reader on FF.net for one of my stories.

Wow, I guess I'm not on board with the sisterhood here, 'cause B'Elanna seems to me like a whiny cow. Granted this situation sucks, but what would SHE have done? Given that the other option is 'let Tuvok die'. You know she's not going to delegate this chore to the Delaney sisters, so she might as well suck it up and take one for the team.

Personally, I don't agree with her moral perspective, but the feedback was very much appreciated because it still made me think of the direction I was taking my story. And I can't tell you how much I actually APPRECIATE all the other readers of that particular piece not jumping in and pointing out that "authors have the right to write whatever" just because she had the guts to state her opinion. As a fan fic writer it actually annoys the crap out of me when people do that because then I have to weed through all the BS to find something that's actually constructive.

[blacknblue]

Actually, I have complained to Misanthropic on her comments section about some aspects myself. But not about the angst. That is one thing that doesn't bother me.

I mean, doggone it, Rigil's Endeavor series is loaded with TnT angst. Angst over the Sim implant and its effect on Trip and their bond. Angst over their need to keep their relationship secret and their desire for a normal life together, balanced against their duty. Angst over Malcolm's supposed death and Hoshi's anguish, and her struggle to raise their baby alone versus her pain at the thought of moving on. Angst over Archer's pain at losing Hernandez, etc.

My stories are loaded with angst. Some of it bloody, and some of it nasty. But still angsty.

Almost all of our stories have some form of angst in them. It's called conflict. A story without conflict to be resolved is a story about nothing at all.

[Asso]

To argue or not to argue, that is the question

[CoffeeCat]

^ I think the angst issue is that there's such a thing as "good angst" and "bad angst"

Bad Angst = "Let's drudge up the same old tralk in the series and make it look like the characters haven't learned from their mistakes."
Good Angst = "Let's drudge up the same old tralk in the series but this time make it look like the characters have learned not to repeat the same crap and then lets move on and find some fresh monkey poo to throw at them."

Am I making any sense?

[Zane Gray]

The popcorn was directed to the rest of the thread:

That ingenious bit about fan fiction writers having the right to write whatever they want is soooo TRUE. So true, in fact, that I'm wondering why it was even said here because we all already know it.

But fan fiction writers ALSO have the right to receive constructive feedback without the peanut gallery pointing out the obvious to the reader who gives it. For example, I just got this bit from a reader on FF.net for one of my stories.

Personally, I don't agree with her moral perspective, but the feedback was very much appreciated because it still made me think of the direction I was taking my story. And I can't tell you how much I actually APPRECIATE all the other readers of that particular piece not jumping in and pointing out that "authors have the right to write whatever" just because she had the guts to state her opinion. As a fan fic writer it actually annoys the crap out of me when people do that because then I have to weed through all the BS to find something that's actually constructive.

I'm wondering... are comments like "that ingenious bit" and "without the peanut gallery pointing out the obvious" really constructive either? Apparently I've been away from this community for too long. When was it exactly that Trip/T'Pol fic writers started backbiting and taking jabs at one another? When did it happen that the comments of certain people were more welcome than others? This is the kind of behavior we used to hate over on the BBS. I think we need to elevate the discussion around here a little bit. People can have disagreements in good faith. They can even disagree strongly, again in good faith. But everyone should be entitled to politely speak their mind without other people making snide comments and taking offense. If you state your opinion, you should to expect that others may chime in as well and disagree with you. I think you'll find that people's definition of BS will vary greatly. So too will people's definition of constructive criticism.

[CX]

*sigh* *places face in hand, shakes head*

[Zane Gray]

*sigh* *places face in hand, shakes head*

No worries, CX. I'm out of here. Apparently I don't get it, and the vibe is just to weird right now.

AN ADDITION SEVERAL HOURS LATER:

I also just want to say sorry if I stepped on a landmine here. That wasn't my intent, and certainly not to piss anyone off. And after a few hours of cooling off, I'm sticking around, so no worries. I'm going to be posting a story update soon too. Cheers...

[dialee]

Zane Gray or anybody else don't go!

People, surely debate is debate.

It surely would help if we had T'Pol's POV since she seems to be the main focus of this fic. Sure, the author puts forth her ideas in her work and she allows her audience the privilege of participating in her WIP process.

We constructively discuss/debate her work. We may or may not agree with her choices but all of our discussion points are valid.

I think this discussion has been pretty civilized. It certainly has not gotten to the point of the more "heated and personal comments" I've witnessed when lurking among the T&T discussion topics in past times.

I admit I myself groaned inwardly when I saw the topic in Chapter 1 but I'm also quite excited about MisAnnthropic's twist toward the potential solution of the angst.

We all, as writers and readers, have to admit Shakespeare was right. There are only so many subjects of the human condition one can write about. It is how an author puts their own individual twist on it that brings the readers back.

Sorry if this sounds sermony.

[dialee]

One more thing, I also look forward to the update of your newest even though you warned us at the beginning that was not going to be a happy fic.

Also, have you given up on the fic you originally entitled, "Objects in Motion"?

[pookha]

:popcorn:

well seeing this twice now kinda tells me to pause for the moment.
i was just trying to say how i saw thingsl, not be part of some type of side show .

Oh don't worry about me. If you want my input, I'm actually agreeing with everything you said about the fic. .

it dosnt matter if you agree with me.
to cotinue to use wasnt helping the discussion,

[hth2k]

Please feel free to disagree or correct me if I am wrong. I do not think anyone on this board has ill will for anyone here. It has been a good group of folks that sometimes see things differently an feel free to speak honestly.

I see this as a good thing.

I think we all agree that MAt is a very good writer and has created some excellent works. The latest may or may not be one of those. We won't know until it is complete and has some time to allow it to find its own place in the halls of fanfiction.

Some of us, me in specific, are not in a space where angst, good or not, works for us at this time. Others happily dive into angst ridden vehicles with relish.

Each to their own.

I hope there is room for all that wish to contribute what ever their expertise as they each have something to say. What ever it is it may resonate with some and not others.

HtH

Less than 100% of Doctors polled did not disagree with this hypothesis or prescribe hydrozine for headache relief.

[Asso]

Dialee wrote
Zane Gray or anybody else don't go!
People, surely debate is debate.
It surely would help if we had T'Pol's POV since she seems to be the main focus of this fic. Sure, the author puts forth her ideas in her work and she allows her audience the privilege of participating in her WIP process.
We constructively discuss/debate her work. We may or may not agree with her choices but all of our discussion points are valid.
I think this discussion has been pretty civilized. It certainly has not gotten to the point of the more "heated and personal comments" I've witnessed when lurking among the T&T discussion topics in past times.
I admit I myself groaned inwardly when I saw the topic in Chapter 1 but I'm also quite excited about MisAnnthropic's twist toward the potential solution of the angst.
We all, as writers and readers, have to admit Shakespeare was right. There are only so many subjects of the human condition one can write about. It is how an author puts their own individual twist on it that brings the readers back.

And hth2k wrote
Please feel free to disagree or correct me if I am wrong. I do not think anyone on this board has ill will for anyone here. It has been a good group of folks that sometimes see things differently an feel free to speak honestly.
I see this as a good thing.
I think we all agree that MAt is a very good writer and has created some excellent works. The latest may or may not be one of those. We won't know until it is complete and has some time to allow it to find its own place in the halls of fanfiction.
Some of us, me in specific, are not in a space where angst, good or not, works for us at this time. Others happily dive into angst ridden vehicles with relish.
Each to their own.
I hope there is room for all that wish to contribute what ever their expertise as they each have something to say. What ever it is it may resonate with some and not others.

Personally I totally agree.
This is a place where I found kind and polite people, ready to help.
You can believe me, there are not many places like this!