Panyasan wrote:I have worked with leaders that had a moral compass (I am very sure they had), but never admitted they made a mistake.
I also think Archer has a moral compass, not one I find particularly outstanding but I don't believe he is immoral or amoral. I do think he would be that way if he found a way to believe he was morally superior to the Xindi. He certainly was searching for a way, but in the end he couldn't find it.
Rigil Kent wrote:No idea if that's coherent. Just got home from work and really tired (and sick, I think.)
Feel better! Yes that was very coherent and I completely agree with what you said.
Rigil Kent wrote:Sure, he was far from my favorite commanding officer on a sci-fi show (truthfully, he ranks near the bottom, down there with Insaneway and that first SeaQuest captain)
That sound you here is a little girl mourning two of her favorite Sci-Fi captains other than Picard, because they were awesome! However I agree with absolutely everything else, so please forgive me.
Thot wrote:1) That Archer doesn't show regret about the actions in 'Damage': Sorry, but what is this whole Archer arc in 'Home' all about?
Exactly! And I'm sorry necessary or not attacking and robbing innocent non-combatants especially those who have
nothing to do with the conflict cannot be morally right
ever. And out of all the things they called him to task on in
Home it was not dealt with in any way that underscored the seriousness of it.
I actually think Home was a decent start into dealing with all of these issues. But like usual TPTB probably couldn't spend anymore time exploring them. It's unfortunate, because then we got an almost teflon captain that could do no wrong and never had any other consequences for his actions in season 4. They took that depth out of him again.
Honeybee wrote:He certainly wasn't a military man or prepared to make the decisions he has to in The Expanse.
Which adds up because in
The Expanse and in
Home it seems like Starfleet is coming to grips with the fact that it is now an actively combatant part of earth's military. But that makes me question the idea that he was assigned the Mission and didn't have to share it with a more experienced man. Here's a part of
Home I found interesting...
Home Transcript wrote:ARCHER: I had an argument once with Captain Jefferies. He was one of the designers of the NX-Class.
ARCHER: I told him I didn't want to be in command of a warship trying to make first contact with new species. Jefferies was right. We needed those weapons, and a hell of a lot more.
It seems to me that at least one SF Captain was thinking they might have to be more combat ready. Also here...
Home Transcript wrote:ARCHER: You may want to find someone with more field experience, a MACO.
ERIKA: I'm not sure how I feel about a military officer on the Bridge.
ARCHER: If I were you, I'd talk to General Casey about assigning an entire squad.
Which brings me to another point, as much as I love Hayes (and by god I do love him) why didn't they send a MACO command officer with them, and set up a joint command??????????? It's obvious from the transcript that SF does not think of their officers as military officers.
Honeybee wrote:I agree Brandyjane, I think that he was given the job because he's Henry Archer's son, his standing up to the Vulcans endeared him to a lot of humans including his crew and he's got the technical skills to be a Captain. He wasn't prepared for being a diplomat or/and navigating first contacts.
And this right here is why I get so flustered about this character. Is it possible he got to the rank of Captain with no training at all in SF's purpose? The whole point to being a SF Captian is to
diplomatically navigate first contacts! And deal with the issues he dealt with. So is SF incompitent, or is the man not the right person for the job?
Honeybee wrote:It's not a political or religious squabble between groups of humans, and the consequences are beyond anything any human has ever dealt with. If it didn't mess with his moral compass, it wouldn't ring true. It does - he just doesn't have a lot of time to worry about it until Home.
I respectfully disagree, the scale might be different but humanity is dealing with the same issues this very second. The Xindi attacked earth because they were manipulated into believing Humanity commited the genocide of one of their races. So they felt they had the moral justification to attack. Just like some societies in earths history have attacked others fearing the destruction of their way of life. And while no human has had to deal with the destruction of the entire human race, we have had to deal with ethnic cleansings and genocides throughout our long and bloody history. None of that makes the actions taken by people that go to stop it any less horrible. And the truly great leaders accept it.
PS. By quoting so much I was just trying to keep track of who said what.