Did T'Pol NEED the Trellium D?

[Asso]

When the truth is shown, the weakness that fills everyone, even a "so called" logical Vulcan, I am happy.
You know I don't like false strength.
And T'Pol and her Trellium... she was searching for whatever able to make her "free".
And to make her love.
Trellium? Any other thing? What's important is that she loves.
Obviously Trip.

[bluetiger]

I may be mistaken, but I thought that after being exposed aboard The Seleya, T"pol was hooked. She could give all the excuses she wanted but she simply needed a fix. I sort of saw the whole thing as out of her control. Did she have any choice about doing more?

Dinah and I posted at the same time and she said it much better than me (what she said )

[pdsldl]

I'm not a fan of the TD storyline but I do allow for a variety of interpretations of what it was all about. People base their ideas on their life experiences and may have been in a similar situation or watched someone else who was or their imaginations took what they understand and came up with a story.

I don't think she used the TD to feel I think she just wanted to relax her control or need to control/suppress her emotions enough to make it easier to get closer to Trip. She became addicted and her control slipped way more than she intended. And I can understand some writers picking up on that lack of control and interpreting her actions to mean she thought she needed the TD to feel because her Vulcan training said she had to keep her emotions suppressed, especially when she later she went so totally the other way and decided to push Trip away because she needed to find her center as a Vulcan again.

And I so believe love is irrational. Not all the time but there are times and if it's not you're really missing out on something. That getting so lost in someone else and just feeling is what makes this life worth living.

[Alelou]

She had to figure out a way to mainline it. That required some pretty lucid thinking and some (faulty) reasoning that it wouldn't be so bad and an awful lot of very secretive steps to take. Is this a sign she was already addicted? Maybe. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

I actually recently wrote a Similitude scene that played with this, but one of the ideas in it came from someone else originally. Was it you, WG? Somebody wrote about how T'Pol might have reasoned that if she could build up a tolerance to TD, the crew wouldn't be forced to leave her behind if they needed to coat the hull with it. I really do think this is the sort of thing she might tell herself as an excuse for also just plain liking the new experience of her emotions. I sometimes wish they'd used that in the series because it would have made her seem a little less of a crack ho. (On the other hand, I really didn't mind the story line as presented -- I like my favorite characters to have flaws.)

[WarpGirl]

When the truth is shown, the weakness that fills everyone, even a "so called" logical Vulcan, I am happy.
You know I don't like false strength.
And T'Pol and her Trellium... she was searching for whatever able to make her "free".
And to make her love.
Trellium? Any other thing? What's important is that she loves.
Obviously Trip.

So Asso are you saying the Trellium made T'Pol love Trip that she needed something to make her "Free" that without it she would not love Trip? That's pretty interesting. Isn't that the definition of false strength?

Dinah You are so insightful. I also believe the Seleya experienced was the particular nail in this box. I guess the thing that strikes me as a little bit tragic in this whole thing was A. Trip isn't the type of guy that would want any woman to relate to him in a way that was not natural for her. B. That the Trellium was false courage, without it she mucked things up bad. She didn't trust just being herself.

Bluetiger I think you are perfectly right. But in that scenario Phlox should have caught it. Poor Phlox.

pdsldl You can get lost in someone and just feel without behaving irrationally.

Alelou Yes it was me, but I got it from one of my brothers. And just because someone is an addict doesn't mean they're not smart or capable of coming up with intelligent plans to get a fix. I have first hand experience with that.

[Alelou]

Yes, I guess I just find it hard to believe she could take all those steps without thinking, as a scientist and a Vulcan -- hmm, isn't this kind of a peculiar thing for me to be doing? Which does suggest she's an addict already, actually.

Interesting discussion.

[WarpGirl]

Rock on Alelou! That's classic addict behavior.

[Asso]

When the truth is shown, the weakness that fills everyone, even a "so called" logical Vulcan, I am happy.
You know I don't like false strength.
And T'Pol and her Trellium... she was searching for whatever able to make her "free".
And to make her love.
Trellium? Any other thing? What's important is that she loves.
Obviously Trip.

So Asso are you saying the Trellium made T'Pol love Trip that she needed something to make her "Free" that without it she would not love Trip? That's pretty interesting. Isn't that the definition of false strength?

The exact contrary.

[WarpGirl]

I'm completely confused then. Sorry.

[Aikiweezie]

I may be mistaken, but I thought that after being exposed aboard The Seleya, T"pol was hooked. She could give all the excuses she wanted but she simply needed a fix. I sort of saw the whole thing as out of her control. Did she have any choice about doing more?

Dinah and I posted at the same time and she said it much better than me (what she said )

Make that another ditto - to you and Dinah.

[Silverbullet]

But after being on the Vulcan ship and seeing what TD did to Vulcans and what she experienced immediately afterwards, being half bonkers. She should have avoided the stuff like the plague. I know, people play with crack thinkng they can handle it but T-Pol is a very logical being trained to think things out. Trying TD would be thoughtless of her.

Again as far as Trip goes I am not sure of how much time had elapsed between episodes. She may not have tried TD during that time she Seduced Trip to fight off Cole.

To be sure she was addicted when she damned near got killed going into that Cargo Bay to get some Td for her fix. That is typcal Adddict.

[WarpGirl]

Just because you know something is bad for you (and all addicts know it) doesn't mean they don't have a physical craving for it. My own theory is T'Pol survived that mess, but was still a physical and emotional wreck. Her brain was still physically craved the stuff and the ship needed it. Add in the axum of "the needs of the many" and she has every "logical" rationalization that she can control it if she injects herself.

As for Trip, well it was heavily implied she was on it in Harbinger.

[Silverbullet]

Wg, you are probably right about addicts. I have little experience with them.

If I remmeber the Episode Harbinger thre was no reference to TD in that episode. It may have surfaced later but when the episode was broadcast, no.

You are also correct taht confirmed addicts will go to any lengths to obtain a fix even to sticking a gun in someones face to obtain funds to buy the stuff.

[WarpGirl]

Well Silverbullet addiction is a very complex thing. And it is never simple for anyone involved especially the person addicted. Unfortunately I had to experience it myself, while recovering from bone surgery. Thankfully I was under constant medical care when it happened. Unfortunately my illicit family members gave me plenty of perspective on the more seedy side of things.

As for it being mentioned in Harbinger it isn't. However it is implied that she was on it during that time when she confesses to Phlox. FYI Harbinger is supposed to be 12-27-2153. Two days after Christmas. There are no dates for any preceding episodes. No date for Damage when she confesses to Phlox.

[Silverbullet]

Two days after Christmas? A belated Christmas gift for Trip then. Just what he wanted.

No dates so we have to guess the timeline. Leaves it open to ones iterpretation. I agree she is addicted.

I could have done without the TD addiction in the series.