Randomness

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Good to have ample storage, but make sure you have a scheme for backing it up too.

I already have a 2TB external harddrive that I've been using for a year now. Are you telling me I need to get another one to backup that?

Where does it end? A backup of a backup of a backup?

[marchale]

Good to have ample storage, but make sure you have a scheme for backing it up too.

I already have a 2TB external harddrive that I've been using for a year now. Are you telling me I need to get another one to backup that?

Where does it end? A backup of a backup of a backup?

I see what you mean there, Kevin. No, I don't think that's really necessary. All I make an extra copy of (and usually just put on a CD or DVD) are those things that are the most important to me - usually just personal and irreplaceable things, as well the stuff which would be very difficult or very time consuming to replace again after a computer died. Luckily I already had the copy of Paint Shop Pro 7 on a zip drive (because I used to take it over to my sister & brother-in-law's house when I used to 'puppy-sit' for them while they were at work), but I normally just back-up stuff like my fakes, screencaps, family photos, the background shots to use for fakes, my music, audiobook collection, etc . Whatever is personally meaningful to you in your computer and you'd be sad about having lost if your computer died, I'd say. Because when a computer dies, it is sad losing it, but at least then you can say to yourself, well - thank God I made an extra copy of this and this and that and that. (I don't bother backing up the Windows system or any of the techie stuff they say you should - since the new computer is probably going to have a newer system anyway - (that how I went from DOS to Windows 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to Vista and now I have Windows 7 and when this brand new computer dies (hopefully not for a few more years) I'm sure they'll be a newer system out by then too). But anyway, I only make a regular copy of the stuff that really matters a lot to me as well as stuff that I worked hard on or spent a long time in gathering together. (I don't bother using backup software, just throw a regular copy on a CD or DVD)

[marchale]

On another note here to anyone who read my earlier post about the state shutdown - I just heard on the news that the State of Minnesota will be back up and running again sometime within the next few days to a week or so, (however long it takes to get the wheels rolling again), but Governor Dayton and the state legislature have reached a compromise after a 14 day shutdown (the longest in our state history). Nobody is happy about it since it's only a temporary solution that will just kick the problem down the road till next year's budget rolls around, but at least thank God the 22,000 state workers who were laid off can go back to work again and we'll have a real state government again and not just emergency services. Neither side won the argument, but at least they finally reached a compromise anyway. (They're just going to be getting $700 million each from the issuing of bonds on the tobacco industry settlement and shifting the accounting around on payments to schools (which will still get their money, but just not as soon as they were hoping to). But at least they didn't cut any programs for the needy (which (thank God!) Governor Dayton was protecting) and the legislature's happy that the state's 7,700 millionaires aren't going to need to pay higher taxes to help the rest of us Minnesotans out. I'm not going to comment on what I think of the compromise (because that would get real political here) but I'm just glad an agreement could be reached (even if it is only temporary) for the sake of everyone involved.

Now I just pray that the federal government can reach an agreement on the federal budget before that might also be facing a shutdown on August 2nd. I'm glued to the TV listening to some pretty scary talk about that stuff (unlike the Minnesota state shutdown that really didn't affect me all that much personally - the federal government budget talks do affect me very personally since I'm living on Social Security Disability in a government subsidized apartment building for the elderly and the disabled) and like the rest of the folks living here, I might be up S*** Creek without a paddle if they do make those proposed cuts to what they call entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps and HUD housing. That and a $111 per month check in Minnesota Supplemental Aid are all I have to live on so that could affect me (and all of my neighbors here) really personally.

[Cogito]

Good to have ample storage, but make sure you have a scheme for backing it up too.

I already have a 2TB external harddrive that I've been using for a year now. Are you telling me I need to get another one to backup that?

Where does it end? A backup of a backup of a backup?

Depend what's on it, but generally the larger drivers are more vulnerable than the smaller ones and five years is a decent life for a hard drive. I wouldn't want to have anything valuable only stored on one drive. If your external disk is only used as a backup, or you have some other method of backing up the stuff on it, or you're not worried about losing whatever is on it, then of course that's a different matter. Otherwise, it's just an awfully big basket to put all your eggs in and the more you cram on it the more you have to lose when it fails.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Good to have ample storage, but make sure you have a scheme for backing it up too.

I already have a 2TB external harddrive that I've been using for a year now. Are you telling me I need to get another one to backup that?

Where does it end? A backup of a backup of a backup?

Depend what's on it, but generally the larger drivers are more vulnerable than the smaller ones and five years is a decent life for a hard drive. I wouldn't want to have anything valuable only stored on one drive. If your external disk is only used as a backup, or you have some other method of backing up the stuff on it, or you're not worried about losing whatever is on it, then of course that's a different matter. Otherwise, it's just an awfully big basket to put all your eggs in and the more you cram on it the more you have to lose when it fails.

Then you are telling me to get another external drive to back up the one I already have!? (CDs, DVDs or USBs aren't really an option since they're just too small memory-wise)

But wouldn't that one last only five years as well? Or should I get another drive every three or four years or so, to backup the backup that then isn't a backup anymore....?

Man, this is getting ridiculous! Aren't there any safe storage devices?

[Cogito]

It comes down to how much data do you have that is worth keeping safe, and how valuable is it? Is it changing, or static? If it's changing, do you want to be able to get at multiple historical versions or only ever the latest version?

If you're talking about static things like pictures/videos that you want to keep forever, just keep a couple of copies on different storage mediums and pull them up onto new technology every few years. Whatever backup medium you're using will become obsolete eventually.

If you're dealing with dynamic data it calls for a more complicated solution and at that point you should probably start by reading the Tao of Backup.

[marchale]

Then you are telling me to get another external drive to back up the one I already have!? (CDs, DVDs or USBs aren't really an option since they're just too small memory-wise)

But wouldn't that one last only five years as well? Or should I get another drive every three or four years or so, to backup the backup that then isn't a backup anymore....?

Man, this is getting ridiculous! Aren't there any safe storage devices?

Kevin, I think CDs & DVDs are a safe storage device - they don't depend on a particular computer which could crash. And as far as them not holding alot, granted - but at the same time, you can buy a helluva lot of blank CDs and DVDs for the cost of an external drive, and if you would lose one, at least you're not losing that much stuff either. I've got hundreds of CDs and DVDs full of things. With my audiobook collection for instance, I put each audiobook in MP3 format on a CD (which I can then listen to either on my MP3 player (which looks like a CD boombox but it can play MP3 files) or on my computer or regular or portable DVD player - and then I also zip that audiobook up too and put that along with several other audiobooks on a DVD (so that way there's 2 copies of it in case if something would damage one of the copies). Its small media I know, but I've got hundreds of dual CD/DVD copies of things backed up that way and it really works out very nicely and makes it easy to find what you have located where that way too if you keep a list or a notebook catalogue of what you have where. Really, I would highly recommend it if you've got a lot of backing up to do.

[Cogito]

DVDs as a format will be here for decades I think. Early discs sometimes suffered from corrosion and I understand that writeable discs were particularly vulnerable, they're also vulnerable to physical damage. So don't think of them as completely safe and reliable. But as a backup medium for small quantities of data I think they're reasonable. I wouldn't trust any piece of physical media past about five years though, there is nothing currently available that is suitable for permanent long term (decades) storage of high value data, and the safest approach is to keep multiple copies on different types of media and periodically migrate onto new storage formats as the technology develops.

[marchale]

I wouldn't trust any piece of physical media past about five years though, there is nothing currently available that is suitable for permanent long term (decades) storage of high value data, and the safest approach is to keep multiple copies on different types of media and periodically migrate onto new storage formats as the technology develops.

Well, if DVD's can't be trusted to remain viable as long term storage, then I'm really royally screwed here; because in addition to the hundreds I've burned over the years backing up my own private collection of things like audiobooks, music, some software and graphics like those screencaps I made of Enterprise, body shots to use for fakes, etc - it just kills me to think of how I spent $700 buying Voyager, $400 for Enterprise, not to mention I also bought Quantum Leap, House, NCIS, and Army Wives too and have a nice collection of rock concerts on DVD as well. And except for the newer shows still on the air and releasing new seasons on DVD every year (like House, NCIS and Army Wives) - most of everything I have is at least 5 years old. (And since my mom died and I moved into a subsidized apartment here, I'm really strapped for cash and pretty much have to rely on getting new seasons of my favorite shows on DVD as birthday and Christmas gifts because I'm lucky if I've got a few bucks left towards the end of the month to buy groceries with). I can't afford to replace this stuff, so I'm just going to have to pray it can live a lot longer than that rough estimation.

[Cogito]

Modern commercially printed CDs are pretty reliable and I expect they'll last decades if you avoid scratching them. I guess things like temperature extremes and damp might not do them any favours but if you keep them in normal living conditions there's no reason to expect any problems. Writeable discs tend to be more variable. They might be fine for decades, but they might not. The thing is, if you lose a mass-produced disc it's probably not the end of the world. But if you have something precious and irreplaceable on it, that's a different matter. So if your data is important, I wouldn't want a CD/DVD to be the only copy you keep and don't assume the disc is readable unless you check it from time to time.

[marchale]

Modern commercially printed CDs are pretty reliable and I expect they'll last decades if you avoid scratching them. I guess things like temperature extremes and damp might not do them any favours but if you keep them in normal living conditions there's no reason to expect any problems. Writeable discs tend to be more variable. They might be fine for decades, but they might not. The thing is, if you lose a mass-produced disc it's probably not the end of the world. But if you have something precious and irreplaceable on it, that's a different matter. So if your data is important, I wouldn't want a CD/DVD to be the only copy you keep and don't assume the disc is readable unless you check it from time to time.

Well, that sure is a relief to hear!!!! Yeah, I have professional copies of the TV shows on DVDs I bought - though if worst comes to worst there, I could always borrow other stuff (music, audiobooks,etc) from the library to listen to. (I don't know if you seen my apartment photos on my home page, but I live next door to the library, so thats really nice!) and yeah, I should try to also put a copy of my other stuff (graphics, etc) up on photobucket (for graphics) and 4shared too (for things other than graphics) - I've got 2 photobucket accounts and 5 accounts at 4shared. Thanks Cogito - hearing that I don't have to probably worry about my store bought DVDs at least is a huge relief. (I am very careful with handling them and keeping them safe and protected in their cases and away from heat/sunlight/dampness,etc). You made my day, thank you!!!!!

[Kotik]

The end is nigh

[marchale]

The end is nigh

Hmmm? I'm just not sure what you mean by that, sorry!

[Cogito]

It's a classic line from people predicting the end of the world. Kotik is gently pointing out that I'm being very pessimistic about how long disk drives and CDs are likely to last. And he's quite right. It's pretty unlikely that you will ever have any problems. But, depending how precious/valuable your data is, 'pretty unlikely' may not be good enough. If you can spare the time, go read the wailing wall at www.taobackup.com.

[marchale]

It's a classic line from people predicting the end of the world. Kotik is gently pointing out that I'm being very pessimistic about how long disk drives and CDs are likely to last. And he's quite right. It's pretty unlikely that you will ever have any problems. But, depending how precious/valuable your data is, 'pretty unlikely' may not be good enough. If you can spare the time, go read the wailing wall at http://www.taobackup.com.

Yeah, I knew it was an end of the world reference, but I wasn't sure if he was referring to the lifespan of the actual discs and drives themselves, or if he just meant that my ass is grass for my little hobby of gathering items to put on those discs and up at 4shared, etc. BTW, thanks for that link, that was as cute as it was informative.