Triaxiansilk.com

Yeah, there's another scene coming - I started working on the thing last night and it was starting to get silly again before I was interrupted. Now I lost the whole mood and I think I better just go back and read until I'm back in the mood.

HR, good observations about Amanda. My story takes place years before Journey to Babel and according to TAS, I have reason to believe at this period on the Trek time line the relationship was a lot more fragile. In "Yesteryear" they play out a scenario where Spock dies during his maturity test and Amanda actually does leave Sarek but ends up dieing in a shuttle accident on the way back to Earth. Also, I think over the years, Sarek finally does learn to cope with his human family. Don't forget, we're talking about the same character to disowned his son for joining a human organization & while his wife was giving birth to (this huge frelling baby) Spock, he stood by coldly with his tone laced with subtle Vulcanish contempt, "So human..."

Eeep! I forgot about the alternate scenario in Yesteryear.

I was thinking about Amanda and Sarek today because of your scene and I realized that, sure, there would have been times when Amanda's feelings for Spock would have come into conflict with her feelings for Sarek, especially when Sarek was being his most Vulcanish. After Spock chose the Vulcan way, he would surely have had a lot of trouble due to his hybrid makeup, and Sarek would probably have pushed him even harder, to make sure the kid measured up. This would have probably been hell for Amanda to watch. She would want to protect her son. The two parents would have had differences of opinion on how to raise Spock, "Vulcan way" or no. And when Sarek rejected Spock (which was wrong), Amanda was stuck in the middle. Must have been a LOT of conflict before she figured out how to stay connected with both of her men, even though they were no longer on speaking terms.

But this all still shows me what a tough cookie she was. (No doormat.)

No, she's not a doormat, and I don't think the scene I wrote depicts her as one - I mean, clearly she's not afraid to tell Sarek what she thinks and she does.

CoffeeCat wrote:No, she's not a doormat, and I don't think the scene I wrote depicts her as one - I mean, clearly she's not afraid to tell Sarek what she thinks and she does.

No, she's certainly not a doormat in your scene. I think we're all agreed here that, in order to make that relationship work, she would need to be unafraid to speak her mind. And Sarek would have known that going in, so that would probably have been part of her appeal, even if it would have caused conflicts at times.

I think that also makes Sarek rather appealing, even though I can't stand (or at least understand yet) his bigotry towards his wife's species. I think I'm going to explore that angle in the story as well - I mean, there has to be a reason he married a human and was still all Vulcan!Pride(tm) to the point of temporarily (and harshly) rejecting his son for all those years.

The funny thing is, I've read a lot of TOS novels that drudge up a lot of Spock/Sarek/Amanda angst, but never offer any solid motive for any of it.

Sarek's disapproval of Starfleet I can understand...maybe not prejudice against humans per se, but disappointment that Spock didn't do what Sarek expected/wanted/hoped by going the route of the Vulcan Science Academy. And as Sarek says in STIII, "My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned." Perhaps the 18 years began as something much simpler, with Sarek assuming Spock would come around or change his mind, and waiting (pridefully, stubbornly silent), and the wait got longer... It's touching and tragic that even Vulcans have such flaws as this. Made me happy that Sarek accepted his son and they reconciled in Babel.

The bigotry from Yesteryear doesn't seem in character for Sarek, IMHO. It seems inconsistent with the IDICness we saw in him in Babel (aside from the Spock issue). I have read that Roddenberry disavowed much or all of TAS, declaring that it wasn't canon in his view. Perhaps stuff like this is the kind of thing that made him want to toss it.

It would seem more logical to think Sarek would be much more progressive in his regard for humans, if he saw enough worth in this human Amanda to marry her and have a child with her. I prefer stories that show him this way...the enlightened Sarek. I love The Vulcan Academy Murders by Jean Lorrah, which paints a lovely portrait of the Sarek/Amanda marriage. (They dance at official functions! Sweeeeet! ) It also explores prejudice against humans, but T'Pau is the adversary in that storyline, which is much more believable.

HopefulRomantic wrote: It would seem more logical to think Sarek would be much more progressive in his regard for humans, if he saw enough worth in this human Amanda to marry her and have a child with her. I prefer stories that show him this way...the enlightened Sarek. I love The Vulcan Academy Murders by Jean Lorrah, which paints a lovely portrait of the Sarek/Amanda marriage. (They dance at official functions! Sweeeeet! ) It also explores prejudice against humans, but T'Pau is the adversary in that storyline, which is much more believable.

Your reasoning is absolutely... logical!

HopefulRomantic wrote:The bigotry from Yesteryear doesn't seem in character for Sarek, IMHO. It seems inconsistent with the IDICness we saw in him in Babel (aside from the Spock issue). I have read that Roddenberry disavowed much or all of TAS, declaring that it wasn't canon in his view. Perhaps stuff like this is the kind of thing that made him want to toss it.

I think in that episode, I was paying more attention to the hypocrisy of all the school children who claimed that Spock wasn't Vulcan and yet engaged in such savage behavior (I was going to say childish, but I think it would be an insult to children). Even through that, Spock shined as being "more Vulcan than Vulcans" (although it wasn't much of a contest.) I actually ignored Sarek throughout the episode (now I have to see if I can find it on youtube or something so I can rewatch it).

I suppose, if you don't count TAS as canon as well as Star Trek V (Which Roddenberry also rejected as canon), then you would end up with that more tolerable version of Sarek.

But when I write fanfic, I really enjoy drudging up all the ugly crap and forcing the characters to deal with it - for me, that's what makes writing fanfic fun.

Even if Star Trek V is canon, you can still question the validity of the vision Spock had of his birth. Since he was being born there's no way he'd actually know how Sarek reacted then and there. His mind was vulnerable at the time of the vision and who knows what kind of influence Sybok had on it.

I was always under the impression that Sarek didn't approve of Spock joining Starfleet because he saw Starfleet as too militaristic, not because of humans. Sure, most of the personnel we saw in TOS were human, but that was mostly due to budget than anything. After the founding of the Federation, Starfleet was chartered to serve the Federation (yet another reason ENT shouldn't have used the term), so it wasn't a human organization, strictly speaking.

Exactly!

CX wrote:I was always under the impression that Sarek didn't approve of Spock joining Starfleet because he saw Starfleet as too militaristic, not because of humans. Sure, most of the personnel we saw in TOS were human, but that was mostly due to budget than anything. After the founding of the Federation, Starfleet was chartered to serve the Federation (yet another reason ENT shouldn't have used the term), so it wasn't a human organization, strictly speaking.

Thanks for pointing that out, CX. I guess I need to do a bit more research into his character.

The Great Bird felt very strongly about not characterizing Starfleet as a military organization, so he probably wouldn't have used that term to describe Sarek's objection to Spock's choice of life path.

From Journey to Babel:

Sarek to Kirk: I gave Spock his first instruction in computers, Captain. He chose to devote his knowledge to Starfleet instead of the Vulcan Science Academy.

Later in the scene...

Kirk to Amanda: I take it that Spock disagreed with his father on a choice of career.
Amanda: My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force.
Kirk: Starfleet force is used only as a last resort. We're an instrument of civilization. And it's a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than at the Vulcan Science Academy.
Amanda: Perhaps. But Sarek wanted Spock to follow his teachings, as Sarek followed the teachings of his own father.
Kirk: They're both stubborn.
Amanda (with a smile): A human trait, Captain?

i sometimes wondered if sarek was being truthful with himelf why didnt want spock to enter starfleet.
beyond the issues of not following the family path going into starfleet during that period was a pretty damn dangerous thing to do.


and within babel itself it is revealed that vulcans can and indeed will employ violence to the point of killing if there is a logical reason for it.

so after almost losing spock to the ritual maybe sarek wanted him nice and safe at the vulcan science academy.


also remember the extreme way he reacted in the search for spock.

and while he didnt speak to spock as father to son(nor spock as son to father they were both stubborn)
sarek didnt prevent spock from coming home either.
in the episode it is mentioned that something like three years ago spock had been home to see them.

HopefulRomantic wrote:The Great Bird felt very strongly about not characterizing Starfleet as a military organization, so he probably wouldn't have used that term to describe Sarek's objection to Spock's choice of life path.

Yet pretty much everything he did with Starfleet made it that. He even had Kirk come right out and call himself a soldier at one point in the series. So I don't know if it's because GR had something against the military for whatever reason even though he was a veteran himself, or if it's because this was made during the Vietnam era that he was worried a show featuring a military organization might not be popular, but I've already had this argument to many times before to point out exactly why starfleet is a military regardless of anything GR or B&B ever said about it.

Amanda: My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force.
Kirk: Starfleet force is used only as a last resort. We're an instrument of civilization. And it's a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than at the Vulcan Science Academy.

I'm pretty sure this is the dialog where I got Sarek's objection to Starfleet for being too militaristic from.