Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

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Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Elessar » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:00 am

So, it's been awhile since I've introduced you all to any new members of "my family". Well, the reason is kind of the same reason the President doesn't go to Camp David for a relaxing getaway in a time of crisis. Things have been rocky around here, and I wanted it known that you all had my full dedication solving our problems before rejoicing in my passion of collectible (and practical) firearms. I won't post 15 photos per, since there are 4 new ladies to introduce. I have acquired these over the last several weeks, so, not just all recently. Nonetheless -- I am personally contributing 2% of our national credit debt :lol: ..... :( ..... :D

This is Jane:

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She is a 1943 Smith-Corona "Springfield" style 1903-A3 bolt action rifle in .30-06. This rifle may be the nearest and dearest to my heart, which is certainly why I picked it up at a recent local gun auction even though I have NO business spending any more money on rifles. She was very likely personally carried into the most brutal conflict of our entire planet's history, the Second World War. I say that it is very likely because I have learned that she actually had a barrel replacement in 1944, suggesting a very high degree of service to her country in the hands of a soldier or Marine. Someone likely lived or died with their hands on her.

She has obviously had extensive restoration and rearsenalling, but regardless, her receiver and barrel saw combat and her stock was probably installed after the war was over, most likely anyway.

I named her Jane because she's obviously American, a USGI (U.S. Government Issue). Since she fought to save every woman (and man) from tyranny, I decided to name her what we indiscriminately call every every woman in this country that we don't have a proper name for: Jane.

This is Tania and Eleanor:

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Eleanor:

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Eleanor is a 1942 Savage (American built, English-serviced) Lee-Enfield bolt action rifle in .303 British that very likely saw service in World War 2 as well. She was built in the United States and sold to the United Kingdom (I believe), for use in the war. From what I understand (which is little), England was having a hard time keeping up war production before the U.S. entered the war, so we helped out by building more weapons and selling them to England (probably subsidized). She is the culmination in a long line of tried and tested English rifles that were used across the world in Royal military forces. At least two friends of mine whose fathers served in the Royal Indian Militia used Ishapore 2A Lee-Enfield rifles, one chambered in .303 British, the other in the later-used 7.62x51 NATO cartridge.

She has also had extensive restoration to her stock but she is all 100% original matching parts from muzzle to buttstock.

Tania:

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Tania is of an unknown year of manufacture. She is a Czechoslovakian copy of the legendary German Mauser action (also copied in the Springfield 1903), known as a vz.24 8mm Mauser. She is most likely a late-1930's or early-1940's model, but her origins were erased when West Germany recovered these rifles after the war and ground the Czech crest off of the receiver, taking the arsenal stamp and date stamp with it. I'm not actually sure which side of the war these rifles served on. The vz.24 was a famous Mauser copy for two reasons: it is the largest, strongest "large ring" Mauser action ever built, and it was known as the "BRNO" (Bruno) for the city where they were manufactured in Czechoslovakia, when they were imported in great numbers by the Shah government of Iran prior to 1979. This rifle may have been to Iran, but I have no way of knowing.

I have been told that the batch of restored rifles that this gem comes from is one of the finest restored Czech Mausers ever produced. These weapons saw extremely arduous combat conditions in the bloodiest of battles.

Finally we come to Olive. Olive is named after the mother of Samuel Colt:

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Olive was my, "what the hell are you thinking, if your mother finds out, you are cat food -- then again this is the most combat-tested and sophisticated family of firearms ever built and no firearms collection is complete without one", purchase.

I named her after Samuel Colt's mother since, after all, Colt is one of the largest original manufacturers of the M16/M4 family of rifles. I could regurgitate every major technical detail about the M16/AR15 style rifle, but I will be brief.

The M16 was first designed in 1957 and produced in 1960. It saw limited service in the beginning of the Vietnam war beside the weapons it would eventually replace, the M14 and M1 carbines. Due to early design flaws, the M16A1 design performed poorly in the hot, humid, dirty jungles where it often jammed and required a great deal of upkeep. It is actually due to this weapon's gorgeous-and-neurotic-girlfriend-like level of required maintenance that is largely responsible for the all-consuming culture of cleanliness-obsession in the Marine Corps and other branches of the military -- though, obviously, the complete nature of obsession with detail in the Corps goes above and beyond the scope of this weapon's heritage. For anyone who has used this rifle as part of the armed services, however, it is obvious that such an obsession when it comes to maintenance and cleanliness is paramount to its continued combat effectiveness in places like Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and other dusty climates. In fact, anywhere besides Antarctica, this weapon has to be cleaned and cleared of debris OFTEN. This is owed to the simple, yet dirty, design of its gas impingement system.

But I seriously digress. The rifle pictured is, in fact, a civilian version of the more modern, shortened, otherwise-tactically-upgraded M4 Carbine rifle with a 16" barrel, a 30 round magazine firing the 5.56mm NATO (or similar but not identical .223 Remington) bullet. The military version has a maximum effective range against a point target of 550 meters and against an area target of 800 meters.

My specific rifle is made by a company named Daniel Defense, that is quite new but VERY accomplished in the AR-15 market. It was built to military spec with a 1-in-7" twist heavy match chrome-poly lined barrel, meaning it most effectively fires military-spec heavy bullets with superior terminal ballistics and it resists wear and rusting for several thousand rounds.

The ribbing you see on the edges near the barrel are called "Picatinny" or Military Standard 1913 rails, designed to hold accessories such as the tactical grip pictured, which actually came with the rifle. The flat-top A3 receiver and collapsible M4 buttstock also came with it.

While it does not have the standard A3 carry handle iron sights, it has an excellent set of Daniel Defense "BOI", Back-Up-Iron sights:

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That concludes this edition of "meet the new members of my family" :lol:

Pretty sure I've chased off everyone but Navigator, Blacknblue, and maybe some intrepid lurker.
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby panyasan » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:33 am

I am not a gun person (well, that can hardly be a surprise :D), but I did found your story about Jane and WW II very interesting, being a history person. The old guns have more woodwork and it's seemed to take more craftmenship to build a old gun then the newer "plastic" one's. BTW, did you solve your problem with the company of your gun safe?
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby CX » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:49 am

Your .303 has just made me insanely jealous.
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Linda » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:48 pm

Are there any males in your family besides you, Elessar? :? I realize that the female is more deadly than the male but surely weapons also come in the male gender? :) :lol:
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Navigator » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:54 pm

My,my you have been busy. Did you get these locally or did you go to Tulsa?

First of all - Jane. You need to look on the muzzle crown or right around the muzzle for a small star. If it has one, that is the sign of a star gauged barrel. Those were exceptionally accurate and were used in the Springfield sniper rifles. They were also used for a "designated marksman" concept (similar to the one used now) that was tried out late in the war. The stock with the full pistol grip is very rare on an 03A3. It may be a post war addition, but if it is original (or dating from the '44 rebuild) you may have something, especially if the barrel is marked.

Then there is Eleanor. Probably not sold to the British - probably Lend-Lease. The Savage guns were well made. The Enfield is probably the BEST bold action combat rifle. Combination of durability, capacity, ease of maintenance, and ruggedness. It is not the most accurate or the strongest. BTW the Ishapore ones in 7.62 can be quite fun. The Aussies had a technique of close range snap shooting with them that the rate of fire made a small group of them sound like machine guns.

Tania - The Czech guns were well made with good steel. I think yours probably never made it to Iran, and was discovered when Eastern Europe opened up. The Soviet Bloc never ever through anything away. Some of the Czech guns did make it to Israel and were instrumental in the 1948 and 56 wars. Most of those were converted to 7.62 though. Beware of some of the surplus 7.92 ammo. It may say non-corrosive but it isn't. Clean quickly and thoroughly.

Olive- I am not a big AR-15 fan. That having been said, it has been developed and tweaked over the last 40 years into a passing fair weapon. Heck of a lot better than the British SA-80 (I think that's the designation). I do not like the direct gas impingement system. I am more of an FN FAL sort of guy myself. But there is nothing like an EBR (evil black rifle) for exciting the neighbors. You need to go to brownells.com. They have enough AR-15 stuff to drive you into bankruptcy several times.

Done well you have, padawan.

Now you have the problem of feeding these things. Reloading will be your next downfall. Bwaahahahaha.

PS no Garand?

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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Distracted » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:35 am

They're beautiful, but... *wince* are you eating beans to pay for them and ammo? Unless we have a major societal upheaval (and Lord, I sure hope we don't!), they're totally useless in any practical sense. I guess they have more resale value than Star Trek memorabilia, but I worry about you... you know, paying rent and car notes and medical bills and stuff. :wink:

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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Elessar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:07 am

Navigator wrote:My,my you have been busy. Did you get these locally or did you go to Tulsa?

First of all - Jane. You need to look on the muzzle crown or right around the muzzle for a small star. If it has one, that is the sign of a star gauged barrel. Those were exceptionally accurate and were used in the Springfield sniper rifles. They were also used for a "designated marksman" concept (similar to the one used now) that was tried out late in the war. The stock with the full pistol grip is very rare on an 03A3. It may be a post war addition, but if it is original (or dating from the '44 rebuild) you may have something, especially if the barrel is marked.

Then there is Eleanor. Probably not sold to the British - probably Lend-Lease. The Savage guns were well made. The Enfield is probably the BEST bold action combat rifle. Combination of durability, capacity, ease of maintenance, and ruggedness. It is not the most accurate or the strongest. BTW the Ishapore ones in 7.62 can be quite fun. The Aussies had a technique of close range snap shooting with them that the rate of fire made a small group of them sound like machine guns.

Tania - The Czech guns were well made with good steel. I think yours probably never made it to Iran, and was discovered when Eastern Europe opened up. The Soviet Bloc never ever through anything away. Some of the Czech guns did make it to Israel and were instrumental in the 1948 and 56 wars. Most of those were converted to 7.62 though. Beware of some of the surplus 7.92 ammo. It may say non-corrosive but it isn't. Clean quickly and thoroughly.

Olive- I am not a big AR-15 fan. That having been said, it has been developed and tweaked over the last 40 years into a passing fair weapon. Heck of a lot better than the British SA-80 (I think that's the designation). I do not like the direct gas impingement system. I am more of an FN FAL sort of guy myself. But there is nothing like an EBR (evil black rifle) for exciting the neighbors. You need to go to brownells.com. They have enough AR-15 stuff to drive you into bankruptcy several times.

Done well you have, padawan.

Now you have the problem of feeding these things. Reloading will be your next downfall. Bwaahahahaha.

PS no Garand?


I don't think Jane has the star but I'll look.

I know a guy over at a different site who knows TONS about Springfields and we have discovered quite a few interesting things about this rifle since I brought it to his attention. The serial # in particular puts it in a VERY rare lot. You are right about the pistol grip stock, he said it was also most likely a post-war addition as it sports no proof marks or cartouches.

But about the SN -- he remarked how Smith-Corona went above their SN range that the armory allowed them to use, and the reason it mattered was because Remington's picked up at a certain point. Well, they knew they went up to like 370xxx something, above the normal number, but mine is a solid 1000 higher than the previously highest recorded Smith-Corona! And it's very most definitely a smith corona. Like, this guy who knows way way way more than me or anyone else I know about USGI weapons was just skiddish as a school girl about this, telling me to go online and talk to this dude he linked me for, some national 1903 historian guy and show him pictures. The C in the SN was apparently given to them to distinguish them from the duplicate SN's in the Remington factory.

Interesting about the Enfield, I didn't know much about it. I have also been told they are probably the single most superior bolt action combat rifle, also.

Ok, so I have really really bad news about Tania. This is going to make me sound so incredibly stupid and I FEEL incredibly stupid about it, but, just tonight I went down to reassemble this rifle. Now, for some background, I decided to follow a tutorial I found online about cleaning cosmoline using mineral spirits. Well I screwed up in about 4 different ways, but, that means I learned a lot.

FIrst screw up: I didn't need to soak any of the parts except the barrel/receiver. First screw up corollary is that I really didn't need to use mineral spirits as hot water is just as effective and less volatile and dangerous to the metal... second corollary is that this weapon hardly had any cosmo, so it was a pointless endeavor to begin with.

Second screw up: I failed to realize that mineral spirits strips off the oil.

Third screw up: I failed to realize that steel in open air without oil will rust - even in one night. I discovered the pices tonight, rusty as can be. They looked like they'd been sitting in the Louisiana swamp for a sultry summer. It was terrifying.

Fourth screw up: Without first consulting anyone, I used Naval Jelly to try and dissolve the rust. As someone probably knows, naval jelly is acidic and removes not only rust, but finish. Thankfully, I panicked as the white/blue crust formed as the acid ate away the bluing began to clue me in after treating just a few components, luckily NOT the barrel receiver.

First smart move: Cleaning off the naval jelly ASAP and soaking/scrubbing everything in gun oil. With this method I got almost all the remaining rust off the components that I did not use the naval jelly on. This clues me into another dimension of my screw up, which is that even after the rusting took place, I could have saved myself the REAL damage if I'd just went to down on the rust w/ oil. But very new surface rust, it probably would have all come off. Instead of just a bit of rusting and some hours grinding away at it with an oil towel, I actually have a trigger assembly, a butt plate, a magazine well latch, THE BOLT, and a front handguard piece (the steel not the wood) with half-stripped bluing.

I'm in the process of finding out where to look for a place that will send away parts for a new caustic hot bluing.

As for a Garand: I dont' know why, I've just never been super excited about Garands. I know they're great weapons, they have a pivotal position in American military history and world military history, I don't know. It's like that girl you know you should like because you have everything in common and she's good for you but the spark just isn't there ya know? :lol:. The Springfield has always been my "leggy blonde" in that regard. I've always wanted one. Long... and slender... :lol:.

Plus they're ridiculously expensive (like '03's) so getting one is a serious investment. If I have a next surplus purchase, I believe it is either going to be a Swiss K-31 or a Russian SVT-40.

As far as reloading... I'm close. I plan to learn on either the .30-06 or the 8mm Mauser. Well, the Mauser will have to wait now. My neighbor has the press, the dyes, the bullets for 8mm and I think he *may* have them for .30-06. Plus, I don't intend to put one single corrosive .30-06 round through my Springfield. Ditto for my enfield. Which is a bummer since I have 200 rds of 1947 and 1948 .303 surplus :lol:. But I bought those when I intended to buy a crummier condition Enfield.

Distracted wrote:They're beautiful, but... *wince* are you eating beans to pay for them and ammo? Unless we have a major societal upheaval (and Lord, I sure hope we don't!), they're totally useless in any practical sense. I guess they have more resale value than Star Trek memorabilia, but I worry about you... you know, paying rent and car notes and medical bills and stuff. :wink:

Sorry. Can't help it. It's the mom gene.


:lol: luckily I'm still paying those, but I need to take a break for awhile.. like... until I graduate from graduate school! :lol:
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Aquarius » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:11 am

I would love to visit you and go to the range sometime! You and my s.o. would have a LOT to talk about. :lol:
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Elessar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:17 am

Aquarius wrote:I would love to visit you and go to the range sometime! You and my s.o. would have a LOT to talk about. :lol:


That'd be teh awesome. I love going to the range. I go almost every weekend now. The only downside is I'm wanting to spread my wings and this place I go to is only 100y. You're talking about like an 18 inch hold over with the Mosin at that range, it hits so high.

There's a range about 2 hrs away in a town called Paris, MO that I have learned has a 500m range that I'm planning to investigate soon.

It's actually an interesting question as to whether the Springfield or the M4 is a more accurate weapon.... what do you think, Navigator? I bet it comes down to them.
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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Navigator » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:30 am

I think it will be the AR-15/ M4. Say what you want about modern manufacturing practices, but the AR-15 platform is remarkably accurate. One of the major reasons is there is no wood to expand or contract or warp. They do quite well at Camp Perry. No Springfield has won there since before I was born. And that is a while. However, the .30-06 round with the Sierra (made in Missouri incidentally) 168 grain boattail can be stunningly accurate. Also if someone offers you a nice profit on the Springfield, be very careful about accepting. It may be quite a find. I am not a Springfield expert.

Sorry about the Mauser. Keep it oiled in the interim until you can get it reblued. Ask around, you may find there is someone locally who can do a reblue for you and do a good job. Ask around the range. frankly, if you had a problem with one, that would be the one as it is more the shooter rather than the collector's item.

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Re: Introducing: Eleanor, Tania, Olive, and Jane

Postby Elessar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:49 pm

Navigator wrote:I think it will be the AR-15/ M4. Say what you want about modern manufacturing practices, but the AR-15 platform is remarkably accurate. One of the major reasons is there is no wood to expand or contract or warp. They do quite well at Camp Perry. No Springfield has won there since before I was born. And that is a while. However, the .30-06 round with the Sierra (made in Missouri incidentally) 168 grain boattail can be stunningly accurate. Also if someone offers you a nice profit on the Springfield, be very careful about accepting. It may be quite a find. I am not a Springfield expert.

Sorry about the Mauser. Keep it oiled in the interim until you can get it reblued. Ask around, you may find there is someone locally who can do a reblue for you and do a good job. Ask around the range. frankly, if you had a problem with one, that would be the one as it is more the shooter rather than the collector's item.


YEAH, I mean I'd rather it have been a Mosin, but it's much better than the '03 or the Enfield.
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