Wonky Science: Hybrids in Startrek

[Kotik]

Peace 'n Long Life, y'all

Since we didn't have a good ol' argument for, well a few hours, I'm gonna throw the next steak to the lions. Topic of the day, science, when it comes to Hybrids ('lil interspecies-nookie don' hurt anyone )

In genetics lessons of 7th grade, I learned something along the line of this :


(picture shamelessly pilfered from Wikipedia)

If we look at the F1 generation, you'll see a red and a white something. That'll be our two favorite characters, with red being Vulcan appearance and white being human appearance.

*fade to black*
*groan,giggle,wheeze*
*fade back in*

Look, it's the F2 generation That'll be Lorian, Elizabeth, Soma, T'San, the lot (number depending how bored TnT are or if the TV set's broken again)
Now Mendel tells us, that for each trait a being has a pair of genes and when mom and dad do the dirty, each one of them sends a copy of one of their genes to make up a new pair which is used in the uterus shipyards to lay down the keel for T'Baby.
[side track]
It'll be awfully interesting what Chief Genetic Engineer Phlox's gonna do when it comes to the logic trait. With T'Pol contributing a slightly Trellium-D-stained strain of Phenylalanine and Trip delivering a bag of hot air, it'll be interesting to see, how he nails that together.
[/sidetrack]
Anyways, uncle Mendel says if red and white end up in the sack, T'Baby will be pink ( not if Shran's involved ) So it'll look neither human nor Vulcan, but a mixture of both, if red and white are TnT.

So why did I bore y'all out of your skulls with that?

Dunno, sounded funny at the time So here's the question. To make them recognizable as hybrids, in the TV shows, hybrids involving a human parent, always resembled the alien parent. Interestingly enough, we as fanfiction writers do generally seem to follow that trend. The only exception I can remember is bluetiger's T'San, who looks human and is all Vulcan-like

So what's your take on it, especially when the F3 generation comes into play? I personally find it funny to imagine a Charles Tucker IV, looking like a spitting image of dad, but delivering nerve-pinches left and right and melding around like nobodies business.

[Distracted]

That's a very interesting question. I suppose it would depend on whether the trait in question were dominant or recessive, or whether it was caused by a single gene or several of them. For example, in real life children are usually a blend of both parents when it comes to skin pigmentation since that trait is controlled by several genes, but since eye color is controlled by a single gene that has multiple alleles, it's impossible for a brown eyed woman to give birth to a blue eyed baby (or at least one that stays blue eyed longer than about 6 months) unless she also has blue eyes somewhere in her ancestry and is heterozygous for the trait.

So...If pointed ears worked like brown eyes then the entire first generation would have pointed ears. The second generation if bred to Vulcans would also all have pointed ears, but the second generation if bred to humans would have a 75% chance of having pointed ears and a 25% chance of human type ears.

I have had issues with GR's concept of unassisted interspecies hybrids from the first moment I learned about Mendelian genetics. If you look at horses and donkeys, for example. They're nearly identical except for the fact that they don't happen to have exactly the same number of chromosomes. Everything else is the same, though. Same general body type. Same diet. Same oxygen-carrying molecule in their blood cells. Same internal body structure with organs all in the same places. Why is it that mules are sterile, then? Nobody knows. But it makes no sense to me that spontaneous interspecies breeding would work. And even laboratory assisted breeding would likely result in sterile offspring, so that "future guy" with every race's genetic makeup in him is patently impossible.

[Kotik]

Good points there Dis. I do however think that even in TNG's time-line interspecies breeding still needs genetic engineering to succeed. I cannot remember that at one point in ST it was expressly stated that an interspecies coupling has led to a pregnancy completely unassisted.

[Distracted]

Well, I seem to remember more than one "accidental" cross-breed in ST canon. Remember Worf's little surprise by his half-human, half-Klingon girlfriend? (I loved that character, btw... I was so peeved when they killed her off). I believe the kid's name was Alexander.

[WarpGirl]

Guys it's too early in the morning for school... LOL Okay, I got really good grades with this stuff <cough>11<cough> years ago. And the bottom line is I'm not sure how they went from K'Ehleyr being "the product of a Klingon Father and a Human mother with a fair amount of help" to Tom knocking up B'Elanna by accident. Come to think of it with all of the fuss over K'Ehleyr's unique physiology Worf knocking her up on the first try is suspect.

That said it's fiction I like that it's completely out there. Just like I love the idea of being able to cure incurable brain damage. I can't help it medical impossibilities is one of the most POWERFUL reasons I've loved ST my ENTIRE life.

That said I've been waiting for those hyposprays to be perfected and used and I'm still stuck with a traditional IV so that's a bummer.

Dis think two little girls staying up late on a teusday night with their parents and hollering NOOOOOOOOOOO! with their mother, and their daddy saying QUIET DOWN. When K'Ehleyr died.

[putaro]

But it makes no sense to me that spontaneous interspecies breeding would work.

Yah, that's pretty far out there.

And even laboratory assisted breeding would likely result in sterile offspring, so that "future guy" with every race's genetic makeup in him is patently impossible.

Well, even if you're sterile there's no reason you couldn't have offspring genetically engineered up.

[Distracted]

I suppose that's true, although without viable sperm and/or ova it's no longer breeding. It's cloning. We're not talking about genetically tweaking an embryo to ensure its survival. We're talking about creating one from scratch in the lab using somatic cells instead of gametes, a much more complex process and most certainly not one that could ever result in getting somebody accidentally knocked up.

[Kotik]

The TNG episode "The Chase" establishes in canon that most humanoid life was seeded by the ancient humanoids, so one could theorize that there are species-combinations, that might be compatible without intervention. That could conveniently explain K'ehlyr and B/T. At lest Klingons and Humans have red blood, so major clashes, like with the Vulcans seem not to apply. Same goes for Betazoids and Humans. Apart from the eyes and the telepathy they seem to be almost identical.

Maybe Klingons are just humans, who fell off the ugly-tree and hit every limb on the way down

[putaro]

Maybe Klingons are just humans, who fell off the ugly-tree and hit every limb on the way down

Oooh, oooh, but they weren't in TOS because of the Augment plague and cure in ENT. Maybe all those Human genes floating around made it possible for them to cross breed even with the turtles on their heads.

[WarpGirl]

B/T.

P/T

[Kotik]

B/T.

P/T

B'Elana/Tom

[WarpGirl]

That isn't how their fans identify them. it's P/T always has been.

[Distracted]

Maybe Klingons are just humans, who fell off the ugly-tree and hit every limb on the way down

Oooh, oooh, but they weren't in TOS because of the Augment plague and cure in ENT. Maybe all those Human genes floating around made it possible for them to cross breed even with the turtles on their heads.

Now that's an interesting idea. Doesn't explain the other crossbreeds, though. Although I guess Sarek and Amanda might have had help. Canon's silent on that point. I think Voyager had a crossbreed too. Or at least I remember little horns on the baby's forehead. But HoloDoc could do anything, so that could have been assisted too.

[WarpGirl]

No Naomi Wildman was an accident. Her mother Samantha was married to a Katarian, she didn't know she was pregnant when VOY went into the Badlands. Samantha had wanted to get pregnant but they were only beginning to try. So Doc had nothing to do with Naomi. Or Tom and B'Elanna's little girl.

[Distracted]

So we're back to square one, then. Sigh.

Oh, well. If ST had real science in it it would be mighty boring, since warp drive is impossible. The things we do to reality just for a good story....