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Dinah wrote:I want to pose a question, but my goal is not to start a fight or make anyone uncomfortable. Ever since Rigil started this story, I've wondered if the story would have followed a similar path if she had crashed with Archer, Reed, Mayweather, or some other male from the crew.

This is actually going to come up at some point in the future because truthfully, Trip wouldn't be Trip if he didn't wonder the same thing. Is it just a proximity thing? Does she actually care for me as much as I care for her? Hell, can she care as much for me as I care for her? If she'd crashed here with the cap'n or Malcolm, would they be semi-involved with her? Etc.

This is a situation where there is no real expectation on their part that they will ever see Enterprise again. Would T'Pol grow as close to the other man as she'd grown to Trip?

In a word: No.

The only character who I could conceivably she her potentially getting romantically involved with in a situation like this is, unfortunately, Archer because they stated in canon that she did respect him (even if I very rarely saw him do anything worthy of said respect.) Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending upon your opinion), though, I think that such an event wouldn't happen in this case because Archer has shown time and time again a predilection for not listening to other people, so he would tilt against some windmills early in this story and get himself (and/or T'Pol) dead. Truthfully, if it wasn't for the character shield that most Main Characters are issued for the show, I doubt Archer would have survived midway through the first season because he didn't listen to other people. So, rather than cooperating with T'Pol, he would order her around, even if she possessed superior skills and talents, which would lead to Very Bad Things.

In the case of both Malcolm and Travis, she is also their superior officer, so rather than challenging her on the level of an equal (ala Trip), they would be looking at her for instructions or guidance, and being a good Vulcan, she would strive to maintain this level of distance. Sure, Reed might admire her bum, and Travis could theoretically develop a deep-rooted crush on her, but they made a point of establishing that Malcolm is an emotional coward ("Shuttlepod One") and Mayweather ... well, he's too much of a blank slate to really say anything about. The same holds true of any other junior officer or enlisted man - I actually sort of lampshaded this very early in the story where Trip reflected that he was glad he was down here with T'Pol since anyone junior to him (which is everyone but Archer or Polly) would be looking to him for answers or direction. So while she might end up respecting them and having some affection for them, I don't think it would ever be as strong as her affection for Trip (hell, she was acting jealous of Tucker in the second or third episode of the series! Did she even care what Malcolm or Travis did in their off-time?)

If not, what does Trip offer that the other might not? "They're meant to be together" isn't really an answer.

From the beginning, Trip refused to not challenge T'Pol, and I assert that he earned her respect in the pilot (even if he backslid to jackassery on occasion.) As indicated by the show, they make a helluva team - complimentary skillsets, compatible personalities ... usually (I totally agree with Alelou that T'Pol would eventually drive Archer insane which is why AinTers don't really make sense to me), and an ability to constantly challenge each other's preconceptions on a daily basis. I've never seen anything similar between T'Pol and any other character on ENT. Archer brings a lot of braggadocio, an overly headstrong and obdurate personality, some piloting sikills (wasted in this locale) and fair to middling diplomatic skills (depending on who is writing him that day.) Reed is a security guy and ex-spook; every one of his skills, T'Pol already possesses so he's redundant. Mayweather brings some piloting skills (also wasted), a Boomer background (wasted), and a nice smile ... plus, if you'll notice, they haven't run into any blacks (or whatever the PC term of the week is - I'll have to check with my black roommate) on this continent (which is intentional based on my mental image of the Earth location analogue), so he might actually draw more problems. Phlox ... well, he'd be a whole mess of problems. So Trip is the ideal partner here.

But then, I'm biased.

And, like the cylons in nuBSG (before the show went batshit insane in season 3), I have a plan.

To put it simply I think that was possibly the most brilliant post I have ever read regarding T'Pol being with anyone. I concur vehemently.

Also this is quite possibly the best quote I have ever read here...

From the beginning, Trip refused to not challenge T'Pol, and I assert that he earned her respect in the pilot (even if he backslid to jackassery on occasion.)

I guess I didn't make it clear that I think she might have sex with Archer/Reed/Travis/ Phlox in a survival situation simply to keep them from going stark raving bonkers. But not romantic love. I mean lets face it, if they weren't going to get back the only option for the ENT guys is either T'Pol or a local (which is tricky) so I could see it only if the man was about to go stark raving bonkers from needing the companionship of a mate. Which has happened.

WarpGirl wrote:I guess I didn't make it clear that I think she might have sex with Archer/Reed/Travis/ Phlox in a survival situation simply to keep them from going stark raving bonkers. But not romantic love. I mean lets face it, if they weren't going to get back the only option for the ENT guys is either T'Pol or a local (which is tricky) so I could see it only if the man was about to go stark raving bonkers from needing the companionship of a mate. Which has happened.

Sorry. Don't buy that. The only way I can see her sleeping with any of them is in a "Bounty" situation where she's not in her right mind or if one buys into the nonsense of Polly Farr. The notion that guys are going to go insane because they haven't had a little nookie is utterly flat out ridiculous, especially since they've got Rosie Palm and her five sisters always available.

They're in space and a good share of the men have had to be without a partner for sex for a good long time and their still sane. They may want a mate but they don't need one to survive. They may convince themselves they need an emotional attachment and create problems for themselves but they don't actually need one.

And I agree that T'Pol wouldn't just have sex to have sex unless it was due to pon farr. But given that she's ill and fears passing it on to anyone she might meld with I'd have to think once she realized that was going to be a problem she do whatever she had to do to ensure whomever she was stranded with was protected and find an alternate way to deal or find some way to keep herself away from them before it was too late.

pdsldl wrote:They're in space and a good share of the men have had to be without a partner for sex for a good long time and their still sane.

That's not even my point. It's the blanket assertion that men need sex to remain sane that makes me roll my eyes. Newsflash to all you ladies: most of us might really like having sex, but we don't need it. The only thing we need is food, water, and oxygen. And football. (Go, Dolphins!)

"Newsflash to all you ladies: most of us might really like having sex, but we don't need it. "

That was my point. There is no biological imperative for sex as such unless it's to procreate.

OK I was talking about the very real possibility of a lifetime stuck on a planet with very slim chance of ever having a mate, and only one option of having one with any clue as to who you are. That could drive your average mostly stable guy stark raving bonkers. Like I said men have gone nuts from isolation from their societies, especially when companionship is severely limited.

Hello, why do you think sailors, pirates, cowboys, and other men working dangerous professions cut off from their outside world usually like to whore around so much. They were able to serve themselves its not the same.

All I'm saying is that in a situation that Rigil wrote without the happy ending of returning home, I could see T'Pol becoming involved with someone like Reed and Archer.

Do I think she would love anyone the way she loves Trip? Nope. Do I think it automatically would work out that way? Nope.

Do I think every human male will go stark raving bonkers without sex? Nope. I did not intend to make a blanket statement that all men go nuts without sex or even every man on ENT would. I'm just saying isolation and stress can make it a problem.

I'm sorry but I can't see T'Pol or a lot of human women hooking up to save someone's sanity. Doesn't sound appealing at all. We're social beings so I can see needing someone to talk, share things with and have them relate(a companionship) as being highly desirable but mating just because there's no one else sounds like more of a turn off than anything.

This is a woman who MARRIED a guy she jilted to save mama's job. I would think another person's sanity is worth more than that. T'Pol is unselfish, as a person. A trait that is all but dead in humanity today.

I said it depends on a myriad of factors. I'm not saying it would be inevitable. Only that it could happen.

Heck it has happened. Throughout periods of isolation men and women have hooked up for companionship and sex. The companions in the old west and ports of call, were necessary staples and still exist in different forms (and not all the girls were paid by men the way your average prostitute is today).

At least in this story it would be someone they actually know, and a committed relationship. Even if it isn't a true love match.

You can't really be comparing doing something for family and to honor your peoples traditions to hooking up with a guy for convenience. To me T'Pol would more likely teach the guy meditation to save his sanity than sleep with him.

I wasn't comparing the situation I was comparing the principle. T'Pol does what she believes to be right, it doesn't matter what she wants. And she's like that in almost every aspect of her life. Like I said it depends on so many things.

But come on saying that women don't become involved sexually with men for convenience is not true. They do even in the modern world.

WarpGirl wrote:I wasn't comparing the situation I was comparing the principle. T'Pol does what she believes to be right, it doesn't matter what she wants. And she's like that in almost every aspect of her life.

I agree with you that T'Pol is an unselfish person in many situations, but I disagree she would have sex with a guy without wanting it herself. Frankly, the notion that any one would have sex with a person without feeling at least she/he wants it, makes my skin crawl. T'Pol didn't have sex with Koss (who she just shared vows with) after the wedding but ran off to meditate and going back to Enterprise and maked sure Trip knew she didn't have a honeymoon. Now is she was this good litlle Vulcan girl following blindly tradition and always putting her own interest away, she would have mate with Koss. She didn't feel for Koss - the guy wasn't even allowed to give her a Vulcan kiss, when he tried to, she slammed his hand away - so no sex. I strongly feel T'Pol feels and especially being a touch telepath sex would not something casual. She really would made that choice herself, based on her attachment/feeling/bond to some one - and I agree with Rigel the most attachment she has, is with Trip.

People in arranged marriages have sex and even grow to love each other quite often ON THIS PLANET, and T'Pol comes from a culture that thinks that is normal. I could definitely see her resigning herself to a liasion with another crewman in this situation.

But she doesn't have to resign herself to it with Trip, so lucky her.

Rigil does have a point about Archer getting them both killed. It would depend on whether he had his usual scriptwriters around. It's not as if Trip and T'Pol are exactly unlucky about their brushes with death in this story either...

My wife is used to tell me: if you weren't the one for me, I wouldn't stay together with you not even if I had to live alone with you my whole life, in a marooned and deserted island.
Honestly, if T'Pol would act otherwise, she would be very disappointing for me.
She wouldn't have apprehended anything from her experience, and most likely she wouldn't even be the T'Pol I can love.
I think also Vulcans should change. They are not "The Unerrings", and my belief is that T'Pol has an open mind. And a heart.

Can't say that T'Pol is completely unselfish. when she told Trip she was going to study her religion and that he could get lost that was a tad selfish of her. she might have said when I finish we can become friends again to let him down easily. Seducing him was in a way selfish as she was doing it to ward off Cole because she felt that Trip ws her territory but she never really told Trip that. In e2 when she would not let him help her to rturn the favor of her helping im that was a bit selfish of her. She later told him that even if the other Trip ad T-Pol got married that didn't mean they would . cold and and selfish. She might have said we will have to wait and see what will happen.

ARcher. He was a lousy Commander and he would be ordering her around fogetting that she could easily survive wthout him but he would have a hard time without her. she could go longer without food and water had lived in a Harsh environment on her Planet. Archer was not prepared for survial even if he did get a week or two of training. He was a terrible commander so, yes he would get them killed.