Vulcan Arc

[WarpGirl]

All I know is I'm glad you can't convict someone of a crime based entirely on eyewitness testemony in the US at least. Imagine, just how many more people would get convicted or let off, if all there was were eyewitnesses? It scares the heck out of me!

[Alelou]

All I know is I'm glad you can't convict someone of a crime based entirely on eyewitness testemony in the US at least.

Where did you hear that?

[Asso]

Rashômon.

[WarpGirl]

Um in order to convict someone you have to have evidence of means motive and oppertunity, no court in the US today would convict anyone of anything ONLY by having eyewitnesses come in and say, "this is what happened." Yeah you can get convictions with them and they usually sway things. BUT you still have to make your case using other forms of evidence as well. Haven't you ever been to court? Have you ever seen a case won ONLY on testemony. There are rules.

[Asso]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Alelou]

Um in order to convict someone you have to have evidence of means motive and oppertunity, no court in the US today would convict anyone of anything ONLY by having eyewitnesses come in and say, "this is what happened." Yeah you can get convictions with them and they usually sway things. BUT you still have to make your case using other forms of evidence as well. Haven't you ever been to court? Have you ever seen a case won ONLY on testemony. There are rules.

If there's clear evidence someone didn't have the means or opportunity, the case isn't even brought in the first place. And motive is something any prosecutor can work up. Many people in this country have been convicted on the basis of eyewitness testimony, including some for whom DNA evidence later showed they were innocent.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well like KTR I think its one of the best of the series.

Have I ever said that!? Must have been in an very old review. I did those season 4 reviews right after they aired originally, and suffice to say that over the years I've revised a lot of my opinions since then. That's why I eventually will rewrite the reviews. I definitely don't think that way about Home now. It's still a good episode, but in all likelihood not as good as I thought it was five years ago.

[Brandyjane]

Um in order to convict someone you have to have evidence of means motive and oppertunity, no court in the US today would convict anyone of anything ONLY by having eyewitnesses come in and say, "this is what happened." Yeah you can get convictions with them and they usually sway things. BUT you still have to make your case using other forms of evidence as well. Haven't you ever been to court? Have you ever seen a case won ONLY on testemony. There are rules.

Actually, you don't have to prove motive, though it certainly helps make the case. That's a myth propagated by "Law and Order." (I don't practice, but I went to law school. That's one of the few useful bits of information I've retained.)

Back to the topic...Count me as one of those people who can't make sense of what we were given in seasons 3 and 4. For a lot of the reasons given by others above, I think they probably restarted the relationship before "Home." Perhaps they just had a "define the relationship talk" we didn't see or (more likely, in my opinion) T'Pol just jumped him one night. Of course, who knows? I think there's plenty of room for either interpretation.

[aadarshinah]

Perhaps they just had a "define the relationship talk" we didn't see...

From what I saw, I doubt Trip and T'Pol ever had that talk.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Re: The status of the TnT relationship before Home

While we're free to guess, my belief is that they were not horizontal or anything. While they sort of connected in Zero Hour I tend to think they took it slow afterwards. They were in "dating mode" so to speak. The met, talked, ate dinner, went to movie night and things like that. They were on the track of something more, but then the Koss incident happened.

I base this on that I think something as momentous as them going steady, sleeping together and all, would have been shown, especially after what TPTB let us see in Harbinger. It makes no sense not to show it if it happened again. Granted, TPTB didn't make sense a lot of the time, but this is my interpretation anyway. I can see why others may think differently, it's just that I don't.

[WarpGirl]

Well like KTR I think its one of the best of the series.

Have I ever said that!? Must have been in an very old review. I did those season 4 reviews right after they aired originally, and suffice to say that over the years I've revised a lot of my opinions since then. That's why I eventually will rewrite the reviews. I definitely don't think that way about Home now. It's still a good episode, but in all likelihood not as good as I thought it was five years ago.

Awe KTR I love your reviews. Please re-write when you can.

Alelou the key word is basis! It might be the foundation, however, it is STILL not the ONLY evidence that convicts a person. You need to bring other evidence to back up the eyewitness testimony. No prosecutor can have just an eyewitness to make a case.


For example, I go into a gas station I see a person come in and shoot the attendent. I'm the only person there. The police can't find the gun, there are no security tapes, no finger prints, no bullet casing, nothing but my word. Nobody is going to take that to a court of law. Does that mean I didn't see it? No. But I can't prove it either.

If there was another person who witnessed it but only saw the back of the criminal's head they are an eyewitness too but that doesn't mean they saw what I saw.

This is how I view watching Episodes. Nobody is going to see the same thing. I would swear in a court of law Koss is confused when T'Pol tells him T'Les "retired" its written all over his face. I believe he honestly thought T'Pol knew the truth. But I doubt very much anyone else saw it. Does that mean I didn't? Nope.

aadarshinah I would hope they had it after Bound. But I fear you're right.

KTR You make me feel sane in this place sometimes.

[aadarshinah]

For example, I go into a gas station I see a person come in and shoot the attendent. I'm the only person there. The police can't find the gun, there are no security tapes, no finger prints, no bullet casing, nothing but my word. Nobody is going to take that to a court of law. Does that mean I didn't see it? No. But I can't prove it either.

That happens and there's still a body, WG, you'd probably be the one on trial... Be a toss-up in my opinion if you'd get convicted, but there'd definately be a trial.

[WarpGirl]

True. But they wouldn't even have an eyewitness to even say I did it. Unless I hire the stupidest lawyer in the world, (or the cops frame me) I've got a great shot. Good golly I hope it never happens though. There's also the fact that if they don't find GSR on me, and the fact that I am physically capable of firing a gun they can't convict me. Even with a body.

[Silverbullet]

WG, what I was referring to would have started after bound. Perhaps took a while and perhaps needed that "Talk" since Trip said "We have a lot of work to do." Once they got that cleared up I believe they started an ongoing relationship. Like you I may be seeing things no one else sees but from the dialogue I do get the impression that T'Pol when she says that she had never been pregnant (by Trip) that indicated they had sex several times Never to me means more than once more like several times. also she says to Trip "You think I may have Gotten Pregnant and not told you about it." Gotten again says that they had Sex several times and she might have become Pregnant one of those times.

Pregnant from the instance in "Harbinger" she was on Enterprise for months after that night Phlox would have diagnosed the Pregnancy and it would be him who would remove the Embryo if one was removed. Else T'Pol would be walking around Enterprise obviously Pregnant and sticking out quite a bit. She could possibly hide it but not in one of those Catsuits. So a Pregnacy from the one night stand in Harbinger is ruled out. This leaves thier having Sex again if she had actually been pregnant and had the Embryo removed. Since she twice said that she had not been pregnant it still says that she had Sex with Trip. If she did not then she would not need to deny a pregnacy because no Sex no possiblity of a child. Trip acting as if he thought she had been Pregnant too points to a Sexual relationship.

T'Pol might have been Pregnant by some other male in the past or might even have achild roaming around but since the child in question parents are Trip and T'Pol that has no bearing and if, as I believe, T'Pol was a Virgin that night in the expanse it rules out a Pregnancu by another male in the past.

That is my story and I am sticking to it

[WarpGirl]

By all means stick to it. However, she does not say they had sex multiple times. Mutiple implications can exsist with her words, so I don't take a few sentences as gosple truth, compared with ALL the other evidence I have seen. That's all I'm saying.