Status and Support

[Cogito]

Picture yourself ...

I'm not denying that type of thing happens, in the real world. But it's not something that I choose to think about, and not what I want to spend my fan-fic time reading about.

I know that some people do like to think and write about stuff that I don't like. That's their prerogative, but I'll avoid it if I can. Both in published stories, and forum discussions. How on earth did we end up here, trying to out-gross each other?

[WarpGirl]

SB what bothers me the most about your vehemance is that you seem to automatically lump people who choose to write about the subject as disrespectful and ignorent. First of all that is not true. I personally know exactly how serious the subject is, and although I have no first hand experience I am far from ignorent! And frankly, to ask someone to picture themselves in that situation just to criticize is not a very kind thing to do.

Secondly, having your mind, your thoughts, your feelings, your very self, invaded is far more intimate than having your body invaded. You speak of T'Pol's trials as if it was nothing. To me that is horribly ignorent and disrespectful to her character! So we'll just have to agree to diagree.

[Asso]

Vehemence?
Ah yes.
Vehemence.

[Alelou]

I find it interesting that men are lecturing women here on what they should or shouldn't write about rape. Seriously. You think we never consider the dangers or effects? You think we don't know friends and relatives who've been raped? You think we don't know how common it is in the world? You think it's not something we have to think about and take precautions against on a regular basis?

I'm impressed with your great (and repetitive) moral superiority on the subject, and your desire to control our behavior in relation to this sensitive subject.

But I'll write what I want to write, thank you.

[Distracted]

Can we not revisit this subject, please? The thread is Status and Support. We were discussing the perceived bravery of some authors who address controversial topics of ALL kinds. Let's move along.

I think it's brave (on this site, at least) when an author writes about true friendship between T'Pol and Archer. I wrote a story like that, and I'm pretty certain that the only reason some of you guys liked it is because I killed him off at the end.

I'm not sure why defending our ship against incursions by the AnT'ers has devolved into bashing Archer at every possible opportunity, but I don't like it.

[Asso]

I find it interesting that men are lecturing women here on what they should or shouldn't write about rape. Seriously. You think we never consider the dangers or effects? You think we don't know friends and relatives who've been raped? You think we don't know how common it is in the world? You think it's not something we have to think about and take precautions against on a regular basis?

I'm impressed with your great (and repetitive) moral superiority on the subject, and your desire to control our behavior in relation to this sensitive subject.

But I'll write what I want to write, thank you.

That's offensive, Alelou.
Extremely offensive.
Unworthy of you.
As you said once, it is time I say Vaya con Dios.

[WarpGirl]

Alelou I hope you aren't on any heart-medication because I know this doesn't happen often but... I've been thinking the same thing all day!

Hmm it's no secret I don't like Archer, and I've criticized him on the boards but I have never ever written any fanfic where I've deliberately bashed a character, and I don't intend too. But the TnT muse is still MIA so I might never get the chance to really take Archer out for a spin. He's a central figure in my unfinished ch7 of May We... but I'm 99% certain nothing I wrote even hinted I don't like him. I doubt Kensi Blye will be so easy...

[Distracted]

I disagree with you, Asso. Alelou's statement isn't offensive at all. Rape is, for the most part, a crime of male against female, or at the very least a crime of strong against weak. A male lecturing a female about not taking rape seriously enough is tantamount to a caucasian lecturing a person of color about not taking racial hate crimes seriously.

Not only that, but every writer has the right to write the sort of stories they want to write. Just as you have the right not to read them if you so choose.

So, as I said before. LET'S MOVE ON.

[putaro]

Well, to get back on track a little....

We were talking about conflict and what level of it is needed for interest and also how much burden needs to be dumped onto the character to give them some obstacles to overcome. When I say that I felt much of ENT was "Torture the Vulcan" I'm not just talking about the actual physical torture, but all of the stress and bad things that were placed on T'Pol throughout the series, including:

Pa'nar syndrome
Trellium addiction
Death of Elizabeth
Death of T'Les
Kidnapping (multiple)
Death of Sim
Memory wiping and recovery

The list goes on. Personally, I think this shows how strong T'Pol would have to be as a person (and also that it was a bit abusive on the part of the writers). I have no desire in my writing to add any more stresses to the character because I think she's already shown to be a very, very strong person. I'm looking to put the whole crew under some stress, though, and have T'Pol's strength be a major part of what pulls them through.

[WarpGirl]

You forgot the most obvious being stuck on a ship with 86 humans 1 denubulan and 1 dog! Most of these humans disliked her simply because of being Vulcan, the denubulan was nosey, and the dog stank! That's enough to put a strain on anyone.

[Alelou]

Well, come on, it's a television show. Trip should be in a vegetative state after all the concussions he's had. Archer should no longer be able to function from the PTSD from all HIS various captivities and tortures and so on. It's pretty typical for the lead characters in an action adventure series. (Mulder and Scully both belonged in a nuthouse by less than halfway through theirs.) I would agree that T'Pol's traumas tended to be a bit more, ahem, intrusive, but at least they had a science fiction element and were a break from all the beatings and shootings and near-hangings and such.

If drama or fanfic were realistic, these guys would be spending 95% of their lives sleeping, running drills, doing maintenance, making detailed scans, and generally boring us silly.

I've pretty much ranted enough about Archer-bashing, so I think I'll leave that one alone. I can't take another festival of I will say that if your focus is exclusively TnT, you miss some very nice fic out there. I almost didn't read "The Last Request" that's up at fanfic.net because it showed up as Archer/T'Pol, but that would have been a real shame. It was lovely. And you really should read Bluedana fics even though they're focused on Archer -- she's just wonderful, and very TnT-friendly.

[Silverbullet]

Speaking of Archer. I agreed with his decision to steal that War[ Coil.

However, I did not agree with the writers. Logically the beings that Archer stole the Warp coil from should have had Deep space communications capability. They should have been in contact with their home world at all times.

Second if their world could build one Warp coil it could build dozens. It should and would have had other ships with warp drive. That ship could have contacted its home planet, told them they had been robbed and to send another coil and some food stores.

Another point: given the size of the coil Enterprise should have had one or more in storage. No need to go around stealing others.

Archer was correct and the writers had their heads up their butts.

SB

[Distracted]

Well, since the writers created Archer (and Trip... and T'Pol... and everything else we're still obsessing over after all these years) I'm thinking they did something right.

[Transwarp]

Speaking of Archer. I agreed with his decision to steal that Warp Coil.

I always assumed that soon after Enterprise returned to Earth, a ship or ships were dispatched to track down the alien vessel and return what was taken. (They wouldn't be hard to find, since they couldn't get very far at sublight speeds.)

In fact, I always thought that meeting would make for an interesting story. "Hey, here's your warp coil back and thanks for helping to save the galaxy." (Most interesting of all would be if Enterprise was assigned that mission, although the story would have to be AU, since it would replace events in season 4.

[Alelou]

Hopeful Romantic wrote some interesting fanfic with those Illyrians and the fall-out from what Archer had done. I can't remember the titles, though.