TnT's Bond - How does it work?

[Aikiweezie]

Good insight Ulva. I think you're right about how it wasn't JUST one thing that led them into their situation.

[Ulva]

Ulva, don't know if this qualifies or not. It is said that the Irish are Fey. They can on occasion see into the future. I knew the day before the day she was born that my Grandaughter would have a cleft lip and she did. Have had a few incidents like that in my life. Telepathy? Who knows.

I have a tendency to approach these things with a scientific scepticism simply because unless anything is proven to be in a certain way, it's still just an opinion, a thesis. I'm not saying it's impossible that some people, maybe all of us, have gifts we don't quite know about. However, stating that it is a fact... well, no, I wouldn't go that far. I know that it's possible to "know" things before it happens, but is it chance and us reconstructing events afterwards or was it real? Memories can't be trusted so it's really difficult to say.

In a way it's a good thing that we don't know that much about ourselves yet because it leaves us with plenty of wiggle room when writing fiction. And that's something I want to remember too, that this is fiction after all, writers without logic and all that.

My 2 öre on the bond: My suspicion was always that the neuropressure was the thing that set this whole bond thing off. T'Pol admits that it's a very intimate procedure and you don't go through with "very intimate procedures" with just anyone. It is probably something you do with someone very close in the Vulcan society.

I don't think she'd pinched Amanda if she hadn't been on Trell-D. I actually don't think she'd "explored human sexuality" either. With a clear mind she'd found a way to get rid of Amanda and made sure Trip would be considered her territory without "claiming" him like she did. She would have felt threatened though and she would have acted in some way but having sex with Trip and then hide behind "exploration" isn't something I think a sober T'Pol would have done.

First of all sorry for truncating this, I thought it was all very well expressed and insightful. And way to go reopening this. First of all I agree that the nuropressure is DEFINITELY the start of their telepathic bonding, but I think the strong feelings of respect and friendship had been there longer. And I really like the point that you made about the Trellium D exaggerating things and changing T'Pol's control, but as you said if she had been sober it Harbinger would have been very different. I really found this interesting.

Thank you. I think this is a very interesting aspect of the TnT relationship and since canon is rather sketchy it leaves us with plenty of room for our own opinions and imagination.

I agree with you that they had a friendship going already. This didn't come out of thin air. Trip just wouldn't stop bugging her with invitations to join in crew activities, a polite human way of telling her that she's accepted. Whether she gets that from the beginning or if it's just puzzling, I don't know. They also argue from time to time in a way at least T'Pol don't do with just anyone. To really argue you need to feel that you can trust the other (at least it's that way for a human) so Trip definitely feels he can trust her. Again, difficult to know whether T'Pol is on the same page but considering that she asks him for advice a couple of times I think she has respect for him and trusts him.

I remember Stub, who has posted fics over at HoT, said that Harbinger destroyed the inspiration to write, and it actually had that effect on me as well. Yeah, it's an episode you can beat any T/A shipper over the head with, but it's... I wouldn't say wrong but it felt like an anti climax. My significant other (who isn't in to sci fi) chuckled when I told him about Harbinger and pointed out that this is every sci fi nerd's wet dream, the resident alien "exploring human sexuality", and you know what? He's right. And that's bugging me. It's such a stereotype really. Another thing with TPTB and their sloppy writing. Not everyone is a basement nerd after all.

Funnily enough, I think that what they were trying to do was to establish the TnT thing beyond any doubt. Kill off any other ideas and silence the shipper wars, because they did read big boards such as TrekBBS and knew what was happening within the fandom. So they gave us... Harbinger. Maybe they thought that since there are so many fics out there where TnT end up having sex before season 3 it would be like knocking in open doors. Funny how they haven't considered slash as option then. Some Trip and Archer perhaps?

*sigh* We should have seen the writing on the wall for the abomination already there really.

Good insight Ulva. I think you're right about how it wasn't JUST one thing that led them into their situation.

Thanks.

[Alelou]

Funnily enough, I think that what they were trying to do was to establish the TnT thing beyond any doubt. Kill off any other ideas and silence the shipper wars, because they did read big boards such as TrekBBS and knew what was happening within the fandom. So they gave us... Harbinger.

Mmm. Personally, I'd rank the possible reasons here:
1. They desperately needed a ratings boost and sex usually lifts ratings.
2. It was clear they already had good chemistry between those two actors.
3. They knew they could get out of it by blaming it on the Expanse, Pan'ar and Trellium-D.
4. They thought it was a fun relationship full of potential dramatic conflict as well as comedy and pathos.
5. Archer was not really an option because it would make him look too irresponsible, plus there was just no chemistry there.
6. Maybe they were getting annoyed by the shipper wars, but I doubt it. These have always been part of the deal with Star Trek (I used to plague Jeri Taylor fairly regularly about Picard/Crusher myself, although I took pains to do it in an entertaining way and this is probably why we became regular correspondents). However ... they might have noticed an unusually huge groundswell of disgust after A Night in Sickbay. Nobody enjoys being reviled or losing an audience to disgust.

[Silverbullet]

Ulva, I KNEW it period, I did not analyze how. I accepted that my Grandaughter would be born with a Cleft Lip before she was born. Was not surprised when my daughter tearfully reported that Aidan was born with cleft Lip. Never told my daughter that I knew about the lip before Aidan's Birth as she may have blamed me for it. Irish are supertisious lot.

Isn't Trip Irish, Scot? that may be reason he is able to connect telepatheticaly with T-Pol

[WarpGirl]

I remember Stub, who has posted fics over at HoT, said that Harbinger destroyed the inspiration to write, and it actually had that effect on me as well. Yeah, it's an episode you can beat any T/A shipper over the head with, but it's... I wouldn't say wrong but it felt like an anti climax. My significant other (who isn't in to sci fi) chuckled when I told him about Harbinger and pointed out that this is every sci fi nerd's wet dream, the resident alien "exploring human sexuality", and you know what? He's right. And that's bugging me. It's such a stereotype really. Another thing with TPTB and their sloppy writing. Not everyone is a basement nerd after all.

Well to me the whole thing felt FORCED! I mean yeah we knew they liked each other, we knew they were EXTREMELY close both in human and Vulcan terms. But I didn't see anything that told me Trip was ready to just fall into bed at request. I mean when they start nuropressure and he actually thinks she is offering him sex he turns her down. Then suddenly, (because we have no idea that the TD is an issue at that point) because she offers him herself in a fit of jealousy, he suddenly says OK? Sorry I don't buy it at all. Do I think they were in love? YES!!!!!!!! Do I think either of them had a clue they were? NOT A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL!!!!!!!! And I STILL say he wasn't heartbroken the next morning. If anything SHE WAS.

Back to the bond, it in of itself is absolutely facinating.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, good to see you again.

The Neuropressure and the seduction were two different situations. First Trip didn't actually know t-Pol all that well and he didn't know Neuropressure so he mistook her intent. He believed she was offereing him some casual sex so he turned her down. In the second instance they both were in Love and were admitting it aloud. So when she offered herself to him he knew it was out of Love as much as out of jealousy over Cole that is why he accepted it. Then too he is a Human Male. the woman he loves drops her Robe, is naked in front of him obviously offereing herself of course he will go along he would not be live if he didn't. It might just be me but I sure as Hell would strip and race her to the bunk if I were in his place.

[WarpGirl]

I'm not going there Silverbullet. But read the transcript and you'll SEE that nobody mentioned LOVE, they mentioned ATTRACTION. Big difference. I'm attracted to Brad Pitt does that mean I love him? That's ALL I am going to say.

[Asso]

I'm not going there Silverbullet. But read the transcript and you'll SEE that nobody mentioned LOVE, they mentioned ATTRACTION. Big difference. I'm attracted to Brad Pitt does that mean I love him? That's ALL I am going to say.

Ah the subtle difference!

[WarpGirl]

Boy if I thought Attraction and love were anywhere near the same thing I'd be in trouble. Now again I say they were in love, but I also say neither of them KNEW IT.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl I think the word used was "Feelings" (a misused word in this case) Rather Care for or Love would have been better.

I have feelings for my Dog but that would not be the same as Feelings for my brother. What is between my wife and myself certainly is more than "Feelings" and I am convinced that what was between TnT was more than Feelings Actualy "Feelings is too casual a word to describe what they had.

[pdsldl]

It's may not be the same thing but it is easier to speak in terms of attraction at the beginning of a relationship than it is to speak of love until you know how the other person feels. And the first sexual encounter can move that along when you realize there is a difference between having casual sex and having sex with someone you truly care about. If you didn't know you cared beforehand you most definitely will after.

[WarpGirl]

That wasn't my point Silverbullet said they admitted their love out loud. I was merely pointing out that they did no such thing.

[Alelou]

It's may not be the same thing but it is easier to speak in terms of attraction at the beginning of a relationship than it is to speak of love until you know how the other person feels. And the first sexual encounter can move that along when you realize there is a difference between having casual sex and having sex with someone you truly care about. If you didn't know you cared beforehand you most definitely will after.

Especially since sex itself releases oxytocin into the brain, which causes most of us to feel a bond with the other, a sensation of merging, although nothing like a Vulcan mating bond.

Some people recover from that bonding sensation experience faster than others, however.

And according to some research I read, a percentage of men (20-25% or something like that) actually lack the gene for forming any significant pair bond. The article wondered whether women would be wise to test for it before marrying...

WG is right, though. They never spoke of love, but of attraction. But T'Pol also said Sim admitted having feelings, which I would say indicates more than just attraction. It may not be the three little words, but it's more than just thinking someone is hot.

[WarpGirl]

WG is right, though. They never spoke of love, but of attraction. But T'Pol also said Sim admitted having feelings, which I would say indicates more than just attraction. It may not be the three little words, but it's more than just thinking someone is hot.

That's all I meant by it. I agree thatthey are in love, but come on to say that the conversation in Harbinger, and the making love after was a declaration is so WRONG.

[Asso]

WG is right, though. They never spoke of love, but of attraction. But T'Pol also said Sim admitted having feelings, which I would say indicates more than just attraction. It may not be the three little words, but it's more than just thinking someone is hot.

That's all I meant by it. I agree thatthey are in love, but come on to say that the conversation in Harbinger, and the making love after was a declaration is so WRONG.

But why, WarpGirl? Really I don't understand this - forgive me - this rigidness.