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Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:20 pm
by michelle
I always find this thing the TnT community have against angst really amusing. It always makes me wonder how much fan fiction people have read from other shows. Because TnT have seriously had it good compared to the situations writers have put other characters through, read a few Spock / Christine, it can be down right sadistic lol.
It kind of worries me that people may be afraid to take characters to certain places and use certain ideas when they may feel that the community will jump down their throats about it, i think that there should be encouragement to write any and all stories, we can judge the content, moan about the fact we think the characters aren't written just right but i really feel that an authors choosing to do a heavy story with a shed load of angst rather than light and fluffy should not be under scrutiny.
TnT did go through a lot of angst on the show and i understand many are drained and just want to read about them living happily ever after but some people still want to play with the characters outside the happily ever after stage, and some people are well immersed in writing about the Tucker kids and pet selhat, it all evens out in the end.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:26 pm
by Asso
That doesn't mean that we have to be immersed into angst.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:46 pm
by Alelou
I think there are enough different kinds of writers and writing here that you can pretty much find your own favorites on the angst-happiness continuum and stick to them, if that's what you prefer.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:27 pm
by WarpGirl
panyasan wrote:I just came back from a great weekend to find lots of good stuff on TRIS.
Escriba wrote:Actually, and I know I'm a minority, I think that her behaviour in "Daedalus" was far from being cold. Yes, she pushes Trip aside, but she tells him what's happening. I take it as a proof of her emotional maturing. Before that, she wouldn't have talked to him, she simply would have avoided him and made him feel miserable without a word. She's trying to deal with some really difficult stuff and she isn't ready to add a romantic relationship to that. That's honesty, more than coldness.
On the other hand, it's Trip the one who acts in a (somewhat) wrong way. He tells her he understands it. Obviously he doesn't and he's hurt, but he doesn't tell her that. He says "OK, don't worry, I'm cool with it" and T'Pol believes him. And why not? She trusts him. It's like... please, men in the board, don't take ofense... It's like when a woman and a man argue and the woman has some hid issue but she tells him "I'm not hurt" and he says "Oh, OK" because, you know, men aren't telepaths.
It's curious how it's men the ones who doesn't like angst very much. Perhaps emotional problems aren't their thing.
I totally agree. When T'Pol bring the message, she speaks softly, she brings the message gently and she has her eyes cast down. She doesn't like what she is going to say. I think that honesty is one of the core characters traits of T'Pol, to the extent that she can jugde herself strictly - so in a way I am glad she shows this honesty now towards Trip.
Please count me in on this. While TPTB made T'Pol lie pretty easily in a professional capasity, (which I didn't like I prefer Spock's exaggerating) she has always been brutally honest with those she respects and values. She might omit things occasionally and who doesn't but she doesn't lie. She was tender and told Trip what she needed at that time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also Trip was very understanding, if he was in despair he was lying not her. Also why have him smiling as she walks away. WHY??? I just saw the episode a week ago and he was grinning like he knew a secret that we didn't. That is not the expression of a heartbroken man.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:56 pm
by Alelou
WarpGirl wrote: Also why have him smiling as she walks away. WHY??? I just saw the episode a week ago and he was grinning like he knew a secret that we didn't. That is not the expression of a heartbroken man.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:58 pm
by WarpGirl
Funny but that isn't the shot I meant. I mean the one where her back is completely turned and he's working. He even... GIGLED.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:05 pm
by panyasan
I don't know, WarpGirl. I was toying with the idea that maybe after her annulment T'Pol and her relationship with Trip needed to be low-profile in order to cause trouble in Vulcan society/Koss' family or something - but Trip isn't smiling because he knows something like that. Like the picture of Alelou showed, he is smiling through his teeth. A odd smile. He is not giving her "we both know the real truth-smile." It's more a "if you want to go that way"-smile. The gigling bit: I think he puts on a "I don't care"-face.
(This post is my "I am tired, so I don't know any good English words to describe what I trying to say"- post
).
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:08 pm
by WarpGirl
I guess. But I didn't get the feeling he was heartbroken at that point. He seemed to be MORE upset when he tried to talk to her about her mother. I got the feeling he was expecting it to tell you the truth.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:12 pm
by panyasan
He was expecting it, he says so in the beginning. I find it hard to place his reaction. What was he thinking?
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:18 pm
by Alelou
It's not easy to see his expression in the scene you're talking about, but I always took it as Okay, Whatever, I Can Smile Through This (and yes, I think he was expecting it). Maybe a little bit of "Ain't it a joke, I fell in love with a Vulcan and now she's got religion" going on there too. But I also agree that while he was hurting he may not have quite concluded it was hopeless yet.
I also agree that he's more upset in that conversation about her mother.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:20 pm
by WarpGirl
Whatever it is, it is very different from his attitude in The Anear and I would love to know what I missed in between. Well I also think that T'Pol deserves her "religion" and time to straighten herself out. You can't be good to anyone if you don't take care of yourself. And no matter how much anybody loves anyone sometimes you have to let them work through things alone.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:46 pm
by Alelou
Well, he died, for one thing, in The Observer Effect. That could make a man decide it's fairly pointless to wait around hoping for something that's probably never going to happen, especially since she didn't exactly try to hold his hand (metaphorically) through any of that. And then he nearly died again in the Romulan arc. He even told her it gave him time to think -- he took one last shot at connecting with her there, though it done so cautiously she was oblivious to it. I always want to kick T'Pol in that scene and say ASK HIM WHAT HE WAS THINKING ABOUT, YOU DOOFUS.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:50 pm
by Aquarius
Alelou wrote:It's not easy to see his expression in the scene you're talking about, but I always took it as Okay, Whatever, I Can Smile Through This (and yes, I think he was expecting it). Maybe a little bit of "Ain't it a joke, I fell in love with a Vulcan and now she's got religion" going on there too. But I also agree that while he was hurting he may not have quite concluded it was hopeless yet.
I also agree that he's more upset in that conversation about her mother.
That's pretty much how I took it, too.
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:51 pm
by WarpGirl
See poor little me hasn't seen it all yet. So I can't be blamed for having a few gaps here and there. Not everyone can afford DVD's especially on an SSI budget. And I take her social awkwardness as part of her "I'm not an expert on humans yet" just as in Daedalus Trip isn't an expert on Vulcans yet. So I give both a little room to wiggle. Although sometimes I admit they are idiots. But then what flawed being isn't an idiot at times?
Re: Major Rant : Angst
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:54 pm
by Asso
