Romance vs. Love Story

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Which one has explosions in it? Sign me up for that one.

What he said!

*****

As for how TnT acted towards each other in Demons/Terra Prime, I think the original intention (when the scripts were written) was for them to have been more couple-y, but then came B&B and said "nope, we want to do the finale so you guys only have two instead of three eps for your story, and oh by the way, we're going to have TnT broken up". Which led to things getting cut out and the result is a TnT that was more distant towards each other for no other reason than that it wouldn't seem too implausible for them to have been broken up in *the_abomination*.

[WarpGirl]

Well then they should have cut that scene between them before Archer's speech. But I'm sorry they were just shoddy writers. I know the rules say I can't say that, but they were!

[Asso]

Which one has explosions in it? Sign me up for that one.

What he said!

*****

As for how TnT acted towards each other in Demons/Terra Prime, I think the original intention (when the scripts were written) was for them to have been more couple-y, but then came B&B and said "nope, we want to do the finale so you guys only have two instead of three eps for your story, and oh by the way, we're going to have TnT broken up". Which led to things getting cut out and the result is a TnT that was more distant towards each other for no other reason than that it wouldn't seem too implausible for them to have been broken up in *the_abomination*.

What he said!
How had I said a time? Ah yes: the mother of the idiots is always pregnant.
And please, do not tell me that I'm disrespectful.

[WarpGirl]

One question... Is "couple-y" a real word?

[Silverbullet]

Okay there was 13 months between Harbinger and Demons. If T'Pol got pregnant in Harbinger and carried the baby to term she would have been on Entrprise all most all of the time. Doubt she would have the embryo removed on Vulcan. Hell if she ws pregnant by Trip why would she let Koss Blackmail her into marriage. Would she have an abortion first? Well if Elizabeth is alive in Demons and Terra Prime that idn't happen. So if she returns to enterprise still pregnant and carrying hte child then she is going to stat showing. People will wonder who who the father is. Especially Trip. T'Pol would have to fess up because when baby is born it wouuld be obvious that the father is human and Trip was the only guy who made it to home plate with T'Pol. The baby is six months old when Phlox examines the hair given T'Pol by the Nurse. Knock of six months from 13. You get seven. So T'Pol would have delivered at seven months. NOot sure how long the gestation period is for Vulcans.

How did she deliver, then sneak the child off ship and how did Paxton get his hands on it? too many questions. T'Pol was NOT pregnant after Harbinger or in home. She could have been pregnant after Bound. Soon after.

One of the problems with the series was that of time. In some episodes the date is not given so one has to guess. Think there would have been a longer period of time elapsed than waht was given. Writer were too sloppy.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Okay SB let's Try to stay on topic here. But you're forgetting one thing, who said a Vulcan pregnancy lasted 9 months. While there is nothing official most accepted is anywhere from 11 to 13 months.

Now back OT before we get in trouble!

[Cogito]

One question... Is "couple-y" a real word?

'Course it is. Just ask Hoshi - she uses it all the time.



(You can blame enterprikayak for that one.)

[panyasan]

Yeah, but I gotta say I don't equate being in a sexual relationship to being in a romantic relationship, let alone a comitted loving relationship.

Now I agree the episode Harbinger only adresses the jaloursy and agressive possive feelings Vulcans have to their "mate", which is a shame. But this remark raises a very interesting question: how does the average Vulcan - and T'Pol is truly Vulcan - see "intimate relationships"? As being touch-telepath and coming from non dating-only marriage culture and just the word Vulcans use, I think that a sexual relationship is seen by Vulcan as intimate and a sign of commitment. Just my two cents.

[enterprikayak]

(You can blame enterprikayak for that one.)

LOL! Now that's some careful reading b'y! You re-gruntled me. I was having a bad day. lol

[WarpGirl]

@ Cogito

Panyasan I don't disagree entirely. Unfortunately, by that time T'Pol's character was in a sense "going native" and I could just give whoever came up with the idea a peace of my mind! I think that T'Pol was literally tearing herself in two, telling herself, "I can have a human-style intimate encounter with someone I have affection for" while her nature and culture was telling her claim your mate! Add the TD and it's just a mess!

Oh dear, so much for staying on topic... I give up.

[panyasan]

Well, we are staying on topic. I think part of the problem TnT were facing had to do with conceptions around "how Humans see" things. If T'Pol is going to base her concept on love and romance on movies and romantic books - she sure has the wrong ideas about how she thinks Trip is seeing their relationship. For example: the dropping of the robe in Harbinger is a classic (according to Asso), but it's a human classic. So why did T'Pol makes this gesture? Because she thinks it's the way Humans females "claim" their mates? Isn't the problem that they both want love, but think the other person only want a sort of romance?
BTW: I don't think it's a bad idea for T'Pol to go native. When you live in another culture, we all go through that phase. Also through a periode of time when you want to know what makes your indentiy, before you just are you with your choice of the best of both worlds.

[WarpGirl]

Unfortunately though while "going native" is fine for a human going to another country and absorbing the culture, for the most part it doesn't compromise their identity. T'Pol is an alien her experimentations caused her physical, psychological, and emotional damage as well. And the worst part of it is, she did it all trying to fit in and "improve" her relationship with Commander Tucker, as Phlox hit the nail on the head. I'm sorry but how in the name of all that is holy can that be considered a "good thing?" Didn't Trip care about her before she got herself into that mess?

[Asso]

Well, we are staying on topic. I think part of the problem TnT were facing had to do with conceptions around "how Humans see" things. If T'Pol is going to base her concept on love and romance on movies and romantic books - she sure has the wrong ideas about how she thinks Trip is seeing their relationship. For example: the dropping of the robe in Harbinger is a classic (according to Asso), but it's a human classic. So why did T'Pol makes this gesture? Because she thinks it's the way Humans females "claim" their mates? Isn't the problem that they both want love, but think the other person only want a sort of romance?
BTW: I don't think it's a bad idea for T'Pol to go native. When you live in another culture, we all go through that phase. Also through a periode of time when you want to know what makes your indentiy, before you just are you with your choice of the best of both worlds.

One of the textbooks of T'Pol on human culture.
It appears that she has read it just before Harbinger.

[WarpGirl]

Ok Asso I find those books creepy. I mean come on why is human culture so permiated with the idea that it's "romantic" to turn yourself inside out and backwards to obtain the affection of the person you want?

Then again, it's probably why I'm hard pressed to find a date.

IDK I guess I'm just of the firm opinion that real love doesn't need all that baggage. Romance seems to thrive on it.

[Asso]

Come on, my friend! Every now and then, try to joke.
Joking is good, it relieves life.