T'Pol's Clothing

[Rigil Kent]

Ah but the catsuit is a time honored tradition... Thank you GR for starting it with Deanna... Not!

I'm pretty sure that it didn't start there. I seem to recall Wilma in the Buck Rogers television show wearing a catsuit.

[honeybee]

Yeah, but to be fair, for all the criticism 7's catsuit got - it did generate lots of press and interest.

I thought T'Pol/JB looked great in the Starfleet uniform, myself. But I really did feel bad for her (and Jeri Ryan) and the seething vitriol directed at her by some so-called fans, especially during the run of the show. I mean - people seem fine with Warp Speed - but god forbid a woman be too sexy for space travel. (I agree that the nails were over the top) but especially at the time - it seemed that people just unloaded on these women.

I preferred a more subtle look on T'Pol, but I certainly wouldn't vent any hatred on her as a character because of the choices of wardrobe or the producers.

[Rigil Kent]

I thought T'Pol/JB looked great in the Starfleet uniform, myself.

Oh, I totally agree. I know that KTR vehemently disagrees with me, but I would have loved to have seen T'Pol in the actual Starfleet uniform in season 4. Hell, I even had him make me an avatar from the eps where she was in the uniform (this was honestly one of the very few things I could tolerate about "Twilight.")

But I really did feel bad for her (and Jeri Ryan) and the seething vitriol directed at her by some so-called fans, especially during the run of the show. I mean - people seem fine with Warp Speed - but god forbid a woman be too sexy for space travel. (I agree that the nails were over the top) but especially at the time - it seemed that people just unloaded on these women.

People suck. Seriously, I see the same thing with the NCIS fandom and how some of these so-called fans spew some positively vile crap toward the lovely and talented Cote de Pablo for the same sort of thing.

[Alelou]

I don't know how they could get past the first dailies with that initial outfit and those over-stuffed bras and not realize they needed to do some tweaking a lot sooner than Season 3. Okay, so she has to be skin tight and sexy because she's Ship's Babe. But why the weird sick-in-a-mushroom-factory camouflage? I still don't see the logic of that. Unless, I guess, those Vulcans really just want something that never needs ironing and hides stains well...

[Rigil Kent]

Did we ever seen any other Vulcan in that mess though?

[WarpGirl]

Rigil I meant in ST. It actually exploded into popularity in the 1966 Batman. When Julie Newmar designed the catsuit for Catwoman. IMVHO nobody but her ever made a catsuit look so good ever. But then the lady is 5'11 1/2'', an award winning dancer, and has class to burn. Its just impossible to top that.

I didn't hate Jeri Ryan, or JB because they were the sexy ones. Well I was mad that TPTB, put Ryan up on such a sex-goddess pedistal that they made the other women seem "not sexy." But that certainly wasn't her fault. I just didn't like how 7 of 9 turned into the biggest focus on the show. Again not her fault.

At least TPTB didn't shaft Linda Park in the aesthics department. When she wore civies, or Starfleet Blues she was just as desirable as T'Pol. But did anyone notice T'Pol's "Vulcan Greys" were skimpier? Why? I mean wasn't she cold on that ship?

Hey Rigil if anything I thought they tried to make Ziva too plain in the beginning. The girl is very pretty, they should play it up more.

And no, as far as I know, only T'Pol wore the Empire waist potatoe sack. Why I have no idea. At least they didn't stick her in 5 inch heels. Jeri Ryan said they hurt worse than that rediculous corset.

[honeybee]

I don't know how they could get past the first dailies with that initial outfit and those over-stuffed bras and not realize they needed to do some tweaking a lot sooner than Season 3. Okay, so she has to be skin tight and sexy because she's Ship's Babe. But why the weird sick-in-a-mushroom-factory camouflage? I still don't see the logic of that. Unless, I guess, those Vulcans really just want something that never needs ironing and hides stains well.

Oh - I'm a big defender of the show - but I can't defend that outfit. It wasn't a good choice.

I still think hating the character/actress - and calling her names and shaming her and all that was unnecessary. Thank goodness they did soften her, though. It's hard not to agree that she looks better in the later seasons. I wonder if they noticed this early in the second season, since she does look so amazing as T'Mir - and 1950s clothes aren't exactly easy to pull off.

[WarpGirl]

I like 50's clothes. Although I would have gone with a different shade of yellow. Honestly, I liked her wig in season 1. Her make-up in season 3. And outfits in season 4. I thought the band across her stomach on some of the jumpsuits were placed to high and made her fantastic legs look shorter. The contrasting band would have looked better closer to her hips to show off that great asset. There are not many women in the world with great hips. She is one of them.

[Rigil Kent]

It actually exploded into popularity in the 1966 Batman. When Julie Newmar designed the catsuit for Catwoman.

Not really relevant though because she was playing a comic book character wearing tights.

When she wore civies, or Starfleet Blues she was just as desirable as T'Pol.

Well that's debatable. I didn't think anyone on ENT was as desirable as T'Pol. T'Pau was pretty hot though. Mmm ... Vulcan babe sandwich ...

[Jayne voice]I'll be in mah bunk.[/Jayne voice.]

Hey Rigil if anything I thought they tried to make Ziva too plain in the beginning. The girl is very pretty, they should play it up more.

And interestingly enough, I preferred her plain, Tomboy appearance in season 3 because it fit her character more than than the Mossad Barbie they've turned her into.

And no, as far as I know, only T'Pol wore the Empire waist potatoe sack. Why I have no idea.

Science experiment. The Vulcans were trying to see if they could cause a human male's head spontaneously explode.

I wonder if they noticed this early in the second season, since she does look so amazing as T'Mir - and 1950s clothes aren't exactly easy to pull off.

In season 2, they also softened her make-up and the bad hair she had from season 1 if I recall correctly.

[WarpGirl]

Not really relevant though because she was playing a comic book character wearing tights.

Um yeah completely relevant! Because if you are a 1966 Batman freak like me and watch all of the documenteries and so on... You learn that suit (IT WAS NOT TIGHTS) made it acceptable, for women to dress that way on TV. Julie Newmar also was on TOS and a friend of GR. So yes its relevant.

[Aikiweezie]

I thought T'Pol/JB looked great in the Starfleet uniform, myself.

.

I agree. There's really no reason why she wouldn't have worn one. In the novels it is made a point to mention that T'Pol switched to a Starfleet Uniform.

[WarpGirl]

I concur. At least the top parts of 22nd century uniforms didn't look like striaght jackets.

[Transwarp]

Gotta add my two bits: I didn't much care for the cat suits (any of them). I was heartily disappointed that they didn't put T'Pol in a Starfleet uniform after she received her commission in season four. Because she looked GREAT in one (I loved her look in 'Twilight'). I never understood the rationale for her NOT wearing a Starfleet uniform, and the writers made no attempt to explain it. Most fanfic writers have adopted the 'thermal layer' explanation, which is still pretty lame but at least makes an attempt to explain something which on the surface is patently ridiculous.

Just one more example of how the show's writers and producers were terribly out-of-touch.

[WarpGirl]

Just one more example of how the show's writers and producers were terribly out-of-touch.

See I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Honestly I wonder what would have happened if I said I didn't like her clothes because I hate the color purple? (I don't)

But come on, just because I've said I don't like the show, (which is still ok according to the 1st ammendment) doesn't mean I purposely go out of my way just to attack it and the people who do. Sometimes IMO the complaint is legit (*the_abomination*) sometimes it's just me not liking something (fake tans.) But I hate all fake tans on anyone, its not just to attack ENT.

[Aquarius]

WG, it isn't because you hate the show--though that does tend to make some people wonder why you'd spend so much time at a fan site, where, despite the show's problems, most people are going to love it for what it is, if at the very least for the fact that it's too late to change any of it now.

Yes, the Constitution guarantees your right to have your own opinion and express it. That isn't what gets people upset. It's when you come on so strong and tirelessly go on about what you don't like, right there to rebut just about anything that anyone says, that gets people a little frustrated. And then when people react to you just as strongly, you either find yourself apologizing for an unintentional insult, or you cry foul. I saw you accuse Rigil last night of disagreeing with everything you say just to do it, when often the same could be said about you.

You don't like fake nails. We get it. You don't like fake tans. We get it. (And again, how do you even know her tan was fake?) You don't like certain specific shades of purple on T'Pol. We get it.

But I hate all fake tans on anyone, its not just to attack ENT.

Okay, everyone here with a fake tan or fake nails, raise your hand... *silence*

So it's not just a slam against the show, it's a slam against anyone around you here who gets a spray tan or uses the at-home self-tanning lotions because it's safer than the sun or a bunch of UV bulbs. (I guarantee you that there are people who've walked past you with a "fake tan" or acrylic nails and you never realized.) It isn't just Jolene's nails you hate; nobody "can pull them off."

People aren't upset because your personal opinion is that you don't care for something; it's because you have to insult so many people right along with it in one big swoop, and at times you came across kind of insulting to Jolene, whose tan I'm sure was real, with green-tinted bronzer over it. And then when someone objects to that, it becomes a Whole Big Thing.

Honestly I wonder what would have happened if I said I didn't like her clothes because I hate the color purple?

Honestly? I think someone here would've said "Really? Purple's my favorite color, and I thought it looked stunning on T'Pol." Whether or not you took that as a challenge to your opinion or your right to express would be up to you.

Bottom line: if you're going to be that vocal and negative, people are going to get vocal with *you*. It shouldn't come as a surprise.

Now can we please get back to discussing T'Pol's wardrobe--constructively?