"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[aadarshinah]

Don't think there is much change on a Soval/Erika-ship...

I know. It's impossible, it's illogical, and it has no grounding in anything, but it gives me paroxysms of giggles every time I think about it. I can't think of anything good to compare it too, other than the fabled Malcom/Lizzie ship, only with that extra degree of impossibility.

What I really want to know - and Rigil Kent will probably be po'ed with me for mentioning it again, as I've brought this up in several of my reveiws, but that was before I discovered this thread, so he'll have to bear with me - is when Trip and T'Pol rejoin Enterprise, as we now have definitive answers on both (see below).

SPOILER!!!:

From Chapter 61:
"And she is alive," Daniels added suddenly. "You will see her again." Soval's lips tightened.
"And Commander Tucker?" he asked calmly. Daniels' mask of composure slipped as he smirked.
"Him too," the temporal agent said. "Where one goes, the other will follow. Think of them as a more intimate example of how Earth and Vulcan are … bonded together." Soval's nostrils flared as he struggled for control. No, T'Les was not going to approve in the slightest.
And from Chapter 49:
In the grand scheme of things, it didn't matter if T'Pol and Tucker were no longer a part of Enteprise's crew providing they were reintegrated into history at the appropriate fulcrum point prior to the destruction of Salem One.

Now, Salem One is only mentioned once as far as I've been able to discover in the franchise, in a deleted scene of TNG, and is one of the first battles/bloodbaths of the Romulan War, which starts roughly around where season 5 of ENT would've. Which means that somehow, someway, they find a way off of Ekosi at least 6 months before then. I say six months because, with the likely capabilities of a decades-old Orion ship and the likely desire for Starfleet to debreif the hell out of them once they ever get back to Earth, it'll take at least that long from the time they leave the planet before they'll be allowed to resume their postings.

Taking this into account, however, I believe that it'll have to be closer to a year before Salem One, because Daniels above indicates that they are important and nessicary to the timeline and, to be important and nessicary, you have to have gotten over some of the bound-to-be-lingering effects of being stranded on an alien planet for 1+ years, gotten back into the swing of things, and have people be used to your presence on a starship again so that they're not questioning your preparedness to be in a command position - which brings me to another point, you have to be fully reintegrated into the command structure of your ship, which is something Starfleet might be leery of doing right away if you're fresh out of such a high-stress situation. Especially in Rigil Kent's universe, in which the Starfleet/military tends to act more like a military probably would.

So I guess what I'm going with here is, what do people think? When are they going to escape Ekosi and rejoin Enterprise? 'Cause there's about a year-long window it could be now, which is rapidly shrinking if Future Guy is a future Romulan wanting to make trouble...

[Rigil Kent]

Forgot to mention:

a Vulcan with Beverly Crusher?

Selar, played by Suzie Plakson who also played Tarah in ENT's "Cease Fire."

Don't think there is much chance on a Soval/Erika-ship - it would be a very akward place to start from.

Yeah. And I don't see Soval as being that open-minded. Sure, he likes humans and he'll eventually be okay with Trip/T'Pol, but I just can't see him getting involved with a human myself (which is another one of the reasons I had so much trouble with the various Amanda Cole/Soval fics that appeared out of nowhere.)

And I really want to know what Erika's side of the story is - what went through her head etc.

Best sex in ten years? And oh God ... Phlox woke up and watched! Wait ... what if that turned her on?

Seriously, I do plan on getting into her head again at some point. Probably.

I know. It's impossible, it's illogical, and it has no grounding in anything, but it gives me paroxysms of giggles every time I think about it.

The only thing about it that really makes me even remotely intrigued by it (even though I still doubt anything will come of it) is the mental image of a Jon/Erika/Soval dinner where Hernandez is called away and Archer & Soval sort of look at each other and don't have a fricking clue what to say.

What I really want to know - and Rigil Kent will probably be po'ed with me for mentioning it again, as I've brought this up in several of my reveiws, but that was before I discovered this thread, so he'll have to bear with me - is when Trip and T'Pol rejoin Enterprise, as we now have definitive answers on both (see below).

Are those really definitive, though? In the first instance, Daniels simply told Soval that he (Soval) would see T'Pol again. That could be thirty years from the current time. And we have no idea exactly when Salem One is attacked apart from it being the equivalent (I think) of Pearl Harbor for the E/R War. I also think your timeline is slightly off in regards to when a fictional season 5 would take place in regards to the E/R War. More likely, I think, the war wouldn't begin until midway through the season (the mid-season finale) or at the very end of the season since, I believe, "Terra Prime" takes place in January 2155 & the E/R War is generally considered to be 2156-2160.

the likely desire for Starfleet to debreif the hell out of them once they ever get back to Earth, it'll take at least that long from the time they leave the planet before they'll be allowed to resume their postings.

Also, remember that DivPath T'Pol is still a member of the Vulcan High Command, so they're going to want to do some debriefs as well, and I suspect their debriefings will be three to four times as long and 100x more boring.

you have to be fully reintegrated into the command structure of your ship, which is something Starfleet might be leery of doing right away if you're fresh out of such a high-stress situation.

Well, to be fair, Erika is only now becoming fully integrated into the command structure of ENT...

So I guess what I'm going with here is, what do people think? When are they going to escape Ekosi and rejoin Enterprise? 'Cause there's about a year-long window it could be now, which is rapidly shrinking if Future Guy is a future Romulan wanting to make trouble...

I too am interested in hearing what people think ... even if I end up utterly ignoring them.

[aadarshinah]

I also think your timeline is slightly off in regards to when a fictional season 5 would take place in regards to the E/R War. More likely, I think, the war wouldn't begin until midway through the season (the mid-season finale) or at the very end of the season since, I believe, "Terra Prime" takes place in January 2155 & the E/R War is generally considered to be 2156-2160.

I'm going with the relaunch timeline. A little less cannonical overal, but the version I think of when I think of the Romulan War... (Largely because *the_abomination*, but that's old news). Plus, there's like a 6 month gap between the Kir'shara arc and "Babel One", so anything can happen.

The only thing about it that really makes me even remotely intrigued by it (even though I still doubt anything will come of it) is the mental image of a Jon/Erika/Soval dinner where Hernandez is called away and Archer & Soval sort of look at each other and don't have a fricking clue what to say.

What I wouldn't give to be a fly on that wall.

And we have no idea exactly when Salem One is attacked apart from it being the equivalent (I think) of Pearl Harbor for the E/R War.

Ah, yes, but if you go the Suliban/Future-Romulan-Guy route instead of the sphere builders, mightn't it effect the timeline of other things? Especially if they/he are/is successful? And, as an utterly groundless personal opinion, now that they know there's an Orion Interceptor, it can't possibly take five years for them to get to it. A year or two, maybe, but the five years or so needed to put it right before the canonical dates of the Romulan War is streching it. It may be a long time after that before they get back to Earth / back on Enterprise, but getting of Ekosi has got to be sooner rather than later.

[panyasan]

And I really want to know what Erika's side of the story is - what went through her head etc.

Best sex in ten years? And oh God ... Phlox woke up and watched! Wait ... what if that turned her on?

<whiping tears of laughter out my eyes - best joke all week.>

[Rigil Kent]

I'm going with the relaunch timeline. A little less cannonical overal, but the version I think of when I think of the Romulan War... (Largely because *the_abomination*, but that's old news).

Meh. I'm with Transwarp there (and have been ever since the "New ENT" smell wore off with TGTMD.) Valid effort, fundamentally flawed with plot holes you could drive a Star Wars Imperial naval battle group through (I'm talking Executor class plus a half dozen or more regular Star Destroyers.) Didn't even bother with Kobayashi Maru or the other one because I was so disappointed with TGTMD and some of the utterly inane decisions made in that book.

Ah, yes, but if you go the Suliban/Future-Romulan-Guy route instead of the sphere builders, mightn't it effect the timeline of other things?

Yes. No. Maybe.

A year or two, maybe, but the five years or so needed to put it right before the canonical dates of the Romulan War is streching it.

Where do you get "five" years from? The most recent chapter takes place in April, 2153. If the war begins in 2156, that's only 3 years. Realistically, a warp 1 ship would take (according to my calculations) 1595 days (which is 4.36 years) to get from Earth to Alpha Centauri (or Rigil Kentaurus, as I prefer) and Ekos is quite a bit farther away than the Centauri system, so depending on the capability of the craft they locate (if they locate/obtain one), it isn't that bit a stretch to believe it would take that long to get back to Earth. Space is really big, after all.

Granted, ENT generally used the "Speed of Plot" instead of the previous established numbers - if you go exactly by what had been previously established, warp 5 is 125x the speed of light (5x5x5), and the time they spent getting to the Expanse would have taken them to ... Vulcan. Oops.

[aadarshinah]

Where do you get "five" years from? The most recent chapter takes place in April, 2153. If the war begins in 2156, that's only 3 years. Realistically, a warp 1 ship would take (according to my calculations) 1595 days (which is 4.36 years) to get from Earth to Alpha Centauri (or Rigil Kentaurus, as I prefer) and Ekos is quite a bit farther away than the Centauri system, so depending on the capability of the craft they locate (if they locate/obtain one), it isn't that bit a stretch to believe it would take that long to get back to Earth. Space is really big, after all.

Oops. Mental rounding error caused by far too much over-thinking of plot. Though, theoretically, the Romulan War could start on 31 December 2161, about 3 years, 8 months from the point of the story now. Still, if they can get a ship and can get it into space, I think at some point they'd enter friendly-enough space in which they could send some sort of distress signal, allowing them to be picked up by a faster ship. (Perhaps even Enterprise. God knows they come across every other ship-in-distress in the quadrant. ) Actually, no matter what they'll probably have to send out a distress signal soon after they get off the planet, because a fully-functioning decades-old ship with all the fuel/supplies/etc that they'd need for their journey would be too much to hope for.

[Alelou]

Speed of Plot is our friend. Without it, a weekly series in space in which interesting things happen regularly just doesn't make sense.

I suspect that Trip and T'Pol will find their ship and get off that hell hole of a planet fairly soon, though personally I'm kind of hoping not before Trip gets lucky and Pater Undil gets unlucky. Perhaps that latter particular item on my wish list would begin to look a little too convenient now, though.

But I don't think it's urgent, because as Aardarshinah pointed out Speed of Plot can pull in help from passing Andorians or whatever when your conveniently available spaceship turns out to be inconveniently slow. (And Weaponized!Trip might come in kind of handy in that case.)

At any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing our couple snuggle in a new venue. Last chapter you even managed to have them

SPOILER!!!:

snuggle in a Daniels timeline while Soval watched!

Viva la leitmotif!

[Rigil Kent]

But I don't think it's urgent, because as Aardarshinah pointed out Speed of Plot can pull in help from passing Andorians or whatever when your conveniently available spaceship turns out to be inconveniently slow. (And Weaponized!Trip might come in kind of handy in that case.)

Or, I may have something else entirely planned.

Cackles maniacally.

Viva la leitmotif!

LOL.

[aadarshinah]

Speed of Plot is our friend. Without it, a weekly series in space in which interesting things happen regularly just doesn't make sense.

True. That's one of the reasons why I always loved DS9: you could imagine all that stuff happening on a more-or-less weekly basis. Because, as Rigil said, space is big. What are the likelihoods that anyone would actually come across a new interesting ship/planet/etc on a weekly basis? - I'll let him do the math, mine already being suspect.

Or, I may have something else entirely planned.

Cackles maniacally.

*holds up hands* I bow before you, evil overlord. It is your story... but it was either this or tear my hair out with Joomla for a while, so... *This one is not worthy*....

[Thot]

Well, concerning the alternations of the plot: Understandable, although you chose to use the sledgehammer instead. I'm fine with it, but still...

I have no idea what that means.

I just meant, that instead of 7 million dead, it seamed like more like 700 million have died in the attack. And if Earth got hit that hard, you could start argue if the planet in itself (geological, climatical etc.) might have "problems".
There's no way, that I "disapprove" of this alternation of things, since the first attack definitely doesn't make sense. It's just a little shock on my side about the scale.
That's all.

Selar, played by Suzie Plakson who also played Tarah in ENT's "Cease Fire."

Okay. Totally missed her.

SPOILER!!!:

What the hell is Surak doing with Spock and Kirk?

Take a look at the TOS episode "The Savage Curtain" or a peek at http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Surak, the "Image of Surak" part.

Beat me to it.

And that one I totally forgot. *shame on me*

Well there's another factor you might consider in future times: When the Xindi attacked and people thought about blaming Starfleet for "luring" bad aliens to Earth, Starfleet could at least counter, that no one had ever met them before. The Suliban are a different case.
It doesn't really change the mere facts, since people who make such a blame in the first place, are normally too far gone from reasoning to be bothered with facts, but perhaps this might change the opinions of some persons, who are unsure - change the climate of the discussion on Earth and therefore change the intensity of xenophobia on Earth?
Just an aspect to keep at the back of one's mind.

[aadarshinah]

Well there's another factor you might consider in future times: When the Xindi attacked and people thought about blaming Starfleet for "luring" bad aliens to Earth, Starfleet could at least counter, that no one had ever met them before. The Suliban are a different case.

The Suliban were on Earth before Enterprise ever left space dock - they were chasing the Klingon courier through Broken Bow in the eponimous episode, remember, which caused them to leave spacedock three days early and have T'Pol and Phlox aboard - so Starfleet can still say, "Hey, we didn't lead any bad aliens to Earth, they found us on their own. Shouldn't we all just be glad that we have Starfleet to protect us from them without pointing fingers any which way?"

[Alelou]

Does this make anyone else suddenly wonder what that Klingon was doing in a cornfield on Earth in the first place? I find it hard to believe it was on the way between Rigel and Kronos.

Eh, whatever.

[aadarshinah]

I find it hard to believe it was on the way between Rigel and Kronos

According to this http://www.sttff.net/images/AST030.jpg map (which, as far as I can tell, is fairly accurate) Kronos is at 5, -3.5. Rigel is at about .5, -2.25, and Earth is at 0, 0. Suliban is at about 1.5, -2.5 - between Rigel and Kronos. So, either the courier was going about the scenic route, was going on a round about path with the very important and pressing information, meeting someone with a faster ship after trying to shake the Suliban, or just got very lost when trying to make his escape.

But that's probably an entire thread into itself...

[Transwarp]

Does this make anyone else suddenly wonder what that Klingon was doing in a cornfield on Earth in the first place? I find it hard to believe it was on the way between Rigel and Kronos.

They were lost. His wife made him stop to ask for directions.

[Kotik]

Does this make anyone else suddenly wonder what that Klingon was doing in a cornfield on Earth in the first place? I find it hard to believe it was on the way between Rigel and Kronos.

They were lost. His wife made him stop to ask for directions.

a male and asking for directions are two things that do not belong in the same sentence. Some concepts are universally true for all species