Romance vs. Love Story

[WarpGirl]

Yeah, but I gotta say I don't equate being in a sexual relationship to being in a romantic relationship, let alone a comitted loving relationship. I don't deny they probably had something physical going on after Bound but before that the idea makes me cringe, and my tummy turn into knots.

[putaro]

In Terra Prime and Demons They seemed to be having an intimate relationsip. Trip tells Phlox that she might have got pregnant and not told hm about it. Phlox says "and she had the embryo removed without your knowledge" I think you know the answer to that." Later in the Mine t'Pol says"Trip you think I might have gotten prgnant without yor knowledge."

Both instances suggest strongly they are very intimat on a sexual level. That the possiblity of a pregnancy could exist.

Harbinger was set in at the end of December, 2153. They returned to Earth around March and left for Vulcan shortly thereafter. Trip's kind of grasping at things, but it might have been possible with their medical technology for T'Pol to have had the fetus removed and put into storage on Vulcan.

Demons is supposed to be set in January of 2155. So there was time, and no need for them to have been having an intimate relationship in between.

Trip's pretty obviously just off the deep end believing that T'Pol had a pregnancy and hid it from him, but him having that theory doesn't require them to be having sex after Harbinger, I don't think.

[WarpGirl]

Wow! if there is one thing that I always mess up it's timelines! It's a math thing.

[Cogito]

Trip's pretty obviously just off the deep end believing that T'Pol had a pregnancy and hid it from him, but him having that theory doesn't require them to be having sex after Harbinger, I don't think.

I agree with all that. And I choose to believe they were in a committed loving relationship from Harbinger onwards which included plenty of sex. And if anyone tries to prove any different, I shall be putting my fingers in my ears.

[WarpGirl]

Then you must disregard the last half of the episode, the rest of season 3, and 90% of season 4.

[Cogito]

Then you must disregard the last half of the episode, the rest of season 3, and 90% of season 4.

Indeed.

[WarpGirl]

Whatever rocks your boat. I kind of like the fact that it was hard for them. I mean seriously, is love ever easy for anyone? That said, I nuke *the_abomination* for many reasons, not all of which have to do with the fate of the dynamic duo but they were the most heart crushing of the tragedies.

I have to admit, I never saw much LOVE in Harbinger... Romance? Some. Jealousy? ABSOLUTELY! Fear? In spades. And of course sex. But love not-so-much.

[Distracted]

Although I agree that sex doesn't always equal romantic love, neither Trip nor T'Pol strike me as "friends with benefits" sort of people. Add that to their body language in Terra Prime, and I'm forced to conclude that at the very least Connor and Jolene were not making any effort to portray a couple who were in a committed relationship. Now, might there have been some fooling around going on after Harbinger? I suppose it's possible. I don't think that the writers' intent was to imply that they were together, though, even off camera. So that's what we have fanfic for.

[justTripn]

Harbinger was set in at the end of December, 2153. They returned to Earth around March and left for Vulcan shortly thereafter. Trip's kind of grasping at things, but it might have been possible with their medical technology for T'Pol to have had the fetus removed and put into storage on Vulcan.

Demons is supposed to be set in January of 2155. So there was time, and no need for them to have been having an intimate relationship in between.

Trip's pretty obviously just off the deep end believing that T'Pol had a pregnancy and hid it from him, but him having that theory doesn't require them to be having sex after Harbinger, I don't think.

Thanks putaro! That's very helpful.

[WarpGirl]

Add that to their body language in Terra Prime, and I'm forced to conclude that at the very least Connor and Jolene were not making any effort to portray a couple who were in a committed relationship.

So you don't even think they were together after Bound Dis?

[Distracted]

If they were then they broke up again before Terra Prime. If you look at the way they interact, I think they're too hesitant and unsure of each other to be current lovers. Lovers touch each other. Trip would have at least put a hand on her shoulder during their private discussion about the baby. If I remember correctly he stayed practically across the room and accused her of being pregnant without his knowledge. That's not the behavior of a lover.

[WarpGirl]

I just chalked it up to the stress of suddenly having a kid in the hands of terrorists. I mean if it were me I wouldn't be capable of rational thought. I figure Trip couldn't process the fact that this child was in the hands of people who would kill to accomplish their objectives. Susan was murdered right in front of him. So if he couldn't dwell on that, the mind comes up with all sorts of things when in denial.

As for the other body language snafus I figured they were in a period of "Yeah we're bonded, but what the h--- does that mean and what the h--- are we supposed to do about it?" But that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't commited.

[Silverbullet]

Think the writers, directors and Coto were sending mixed signals. On one hand it was twice mentioned that T'Pol could have gotten Pregnant without Trip's knoledge or her telling him of the Pregnancy. The way it is said seems to me that they are having sexual relations on a regular basis.

IF T'Pol got pregnant after that night in Harbinger it would be very evident. There was enough time for her to be way oout to here. She probably would carry the child a little high but a baby still sticks out. She couldn't hide it in that damned Catsuit and if she started to wear a loose Uniform that would tip off the crew. I still contend they were in a commited relationship but had issues of understanding thier communications. Trip acknowledges the Bond and it obsiously is telling T'Pol that Trip doesn't really believe her about the Pregnancy.

Trip comes in to T'Pol's quarters after having just heard that he and T'Pol have a baby somewhere. He is in shock. He wants some explanation because he obviously doesn't know about any Pregnancy. He even says to Phlox tht she might have gotten pregnant and not told him. He isn't thinking of anything but an explantion for the inexplicible. T'Pol assures him that she has never been Pregnant. She doesn't need to add "by you" because the baby is supposed to be a product of both them.

Paxton clls them the star crossed lovers. Doubt if he would know anything about that night in the Expanse. The only information he would have is by way of his person on board the Enterprise who, like the rest of the crew, knows that Trip and t'Pol are playing "sheet Music" This would be after Bound and probably brought on by the Episode Observer effect. T'Pol now knowing that she loves Trip and decides to fess up and they start a relationship that is both physical and commited.

When Trip comes in to tell T'Pol that the delegates want to attend the services for Elizabeth he is all broken up. If any one should be consoling now it should have bene T'Pol. She could have done it as they were in the privacy of her quarters. Trip is still wounded (wonder why Malcolm isn't as he got shot too.) Trip sits down and tells her Phlox made another mistake in his diagnosis and that it was an error by Paxton's doctors that caused Elizabeths death. That there is no reason that they cannot have another child. (In different words) T'Pol takes his hand in agreement. I have always believed she is saying that for her that is what she wants.

Anyway, mixed signals from Writers, directos and Coto (and probably Sussman too as I uderstand he was in there)

SB

[Asso]

Trip's pretty obviously just off the deep end believing that T'Pol had a pregnancy and hid it from him, but him having that theory doesn't require them to be having sex after Harbinger, I don't think.

I agree with all that. And I choose to believe they were in a committed loving relationship from Harbinger onwards which included plenty of sex. And if anyone tries to prove any different, I shall be putting my fingers in my ears.

Frankly I don't understand why should be denied what's obvious.
In any case, I'm ready to follow your suggestion, Cogito.
Where the hell can I find that very fitting smiley?

[WarpGirl]

Think the writers, directors and Coto were sending mixed signals. On one hand it was twice mentioned that T'Pol could have gotten Pregnant without Trip's knoledge or her telling him of the Pregnancy. The way it is said seems to me that they are having sexual relations on a regular basis.

IF T'Pol got pregnant after that night in Harbinger it would be very evident. There was enough time for her to be way oout to here. She probably would carry the child a little high but a baby still sticks out. She couldn't hide it in that damned Catsuit and if she started to wear a loose Uniform that would tip off the crew. I still contend they were in a commited relationship but had issues of understanding thier communications. Trip acknowledges the Bond and it obsiously is telling T'Pol that Trip doesn't really believe her about the Pregnancy.

Trip comes in to T'Pol's quarters after having just heard that he and T'Pol have a baby somewhere. He is in shock. He wants some explanation because he obviously doesn't know about any Pregnancy. He even says to Phlox tht she might have gotten pregnant and not told him. He isn't thinking of anything but an explantion for the inexplicible. T'Pol assures him that she has never been Pregnant. She doesn't need to add "by you" because the baby is supposed to be a product of both them.

Paxton clls them the star crossed lovers. Doubt if he would know anything about that night in the Expanse. The only information he would have is by way of his person on board the Enterprise who, like the rest of the crew, knows that Trip and t'Pol are playing "sheet Music" This would be after Bound and probably brought on by the Episode Observer effect. T'Pol now knowing that she loves Trip and decides to fess up and they start a relationship that is both physical and commited.

When Trip comes in to tell T'Pol that the delegates want to attend the services for Elizabeth he is all broken up. If any one should be consoling now it should have bene T'Pol. She could have done it as they were in the privacy of her quarters. Trip is still wounded (wonder why Malcolm isn't as he got shot too.) Trip sits down and tells her Phlox made another mistake in his diagnosis and that it was an error by Paxton's doctors that caused Elizabeths death. That there is no reason that they cannot have another child. (In different words) T'Pol takes his hand in agreement. I have always believed she is saying that for her that is what she wants.

Anyway, mixed signals from Writers, directos and Coto (and probably Sussman too as I uderstand he was in there)

SB

SB While you have every right to read into what we saw any way you want too, (and it makes for an interesting story idea) I don't think the writers took that amount of effort to put all of the subtle clues you're saying was there. I'm sorry but just the fact that Trip was thinking quite irrationally that T'Pol could have hidden a pregnancy doesn't mean that there was an ongoing sexual relationship. And frankly after Harbinger and E2 if they were having sex, I'd say it was one of the most unhealthy fictional sexual relationships I'd ever seen on TV. They certainly weren't having sex after Home or Daedalus. So I can't imagine how Paxton saying they're "star crossed" lovers is proof of anything. All that proves is that there was a lot of gossip on ship and his operative reported it.

Do we honestly believe little Ensign Massaro had the 411 on the true status of TnT's relationship.

And guys, I'm all for wanting everything right between our duo, but leaving out all the trouble cheapens their relationship don't you think? Overcoming adversities and problems, (not sexing them away) is part of what separates a "romance" from a "love story." WOW I brought us back on topic and follwed the current conversation! And come to think of it, it's at the end Terra Prime where the "romance" ends and the "love story" begins...

Unless it's my AU then they stop the nonsense after Bound and behave like "mostly" rational adults.