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At risk of dead horse stomping, what does it matter what the dictionary difference between exploration and experimentation are? Trip clearly equates one with the other, and gives her the chance to correct him, which she doesn't take full advantage of.

T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality.
TUCKER: I'm not sure I follow.
T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command.
TUCKER: Sounds like you're saying last night was some kind of experiment.
T'POL: I wouldn't use that term.
TUCKER: But that's the general idea.
T'POL: Are you getting emotional?
TUCKER: No, I'm not getting emotional. I just don't like being compared to a lab rat.
T'POL: I'm sorry if I offended you.
TUCKER: Forget it. I'd appreciate it if we could keep this between us. In fact, we probably should forget it ever happened.
T'POL: Agreed.
TUCKER: Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure though.

Here's the thought bubble version:


TUCKER: No need to thank me. <Though I don't mind if you feel you absolutely must>
T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality. <There, that sounds rational enough>
TUCKER: <Ouch! What the hell kind of shit is this?> I'm not sure I follow.
T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command. <Yes, very rational. An anthropological-slash-biological study...nothing at all about keeping that bitch Cole from stepping in and stealing my man.>
TUCKER: <What the hell bullshit is this? Is she for real?> Sounds like you're saying last night was some kind of experiment.
T'POL: <Oops. I may have pushed that a little too far.> I wouldn't use that term.
TUCKER: But that's the general idea. <She's trying to pretend this was all just some anthropological-slash-biological study, isn't she? I should have known something like this would happen. Well, lover??? Some backpedaling of some kind would be very good of you to do right about now.>
T'POL: <He's angry? Tactical alert! > Are you getting emotional?
TUCKER: No, I'm not getting emotional. <And if I were I sure as hell wouldn't admit it to you NOW.> I just don't like being compared to a lab rat. <See, it's nothing that really crushes my poor heart. It's just generally offensive and degrading. You could still backtrack now, you know.>
T'POL: I'm sorry if I offended you. <Maybe I took that a little too far but I don't see any safe way out of it.>
TUCKER: Forget it. <I'm such an idiot.> I'd appreciate it if we could keep this between us. <Please GOD don't let the rest of the ship know what just happened.> In fact, we probably should forget it ever happened. <How does THAT feel, huh? Taste of your own medicine.>
T'POL: Agreed. <I definitely took that too far.>
TUCKER: <You know, I don't buy it. She was wild last night. 'Exploration' my ass.> Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure though. <If she's wearing those pajamas, I'm still in.>
T'POL: <I'll wear the red PJs tonight. I think he likes those best.>

I think the operative sentence in that exchange is I wouldn't use that term. Since we've already established the woman can't lie worth a good gosh-darn, might it be resonable to conclude that Trip might actually believe that sentence is the truth? Even if the rest is vague at best and crap at worst.

Alelou wrote:At risk of dead horse stomping, what does it matter what the dictionary difference between exploration and experimentation are? Trip clearly equates one with the other, and gives her the chance to correct him, which she doesn't take full advantage of.

T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality.
TUCKER: I'm not sure I follow.
T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command.
TUCKER: Sounds like you're saying last night was some kind of experiment.
T'POL: I wouldn't use that term.
TUCKER: But that's the general idea.
T'POL: Are you getting emotional?
TUCKER: No, I'm not getting emotional. I just don't like being compared to a lab rat.
T'POL: I'm sorry if I offended you.
TUCKER: Forget it. I'd appreciate it if we could keep this between us. In fact, we probably should forget it ever happened.
T'POL: Agreed.
TUCKER: Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure though.

Here's the thought bubble version:


TUCKER: No need to thank me. <Though I don't mind if you feel you absolutely must>
T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality. <There, that sounds rational enough>
TUCKER: <Ouch! What the hell kind of shit is this?> I'm not sure I follow.
T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command. <Yes, very rational. An anthropological-slash-biological study...nothing at all about keeping that bitch Cole from stepping in and stealing my man.>
TUCKER: <What the hell bullshit is this? Is she for real?> Sounds like you're saying last night was some kind of experiment.
T'POL: <Oops. I may have pushed that a little too far.> I wouldn't use that term.
TUCKER: But that's the general idea. <She's trying to pretend this was all just some anthropological-slash-biological study, isn't she? I should have known something like this would happen. Well, lover??? Some backpedaling of some kind would be very good of you to do right about now.>
T'POL: <He's angry? Tactical alert! > Are you getting emotional?
TUCKER: No, I'm not getting emotional. <And if I were I sure as hell wouldn't admit it to you NOW.> I just don't like being compared to a lab rat. <See, it's nothing that really crushes my poor heart. It's just generally offensive and degrading. You could still backtrack now, you know.>
T'POL: I'm sorry if I offended you. <Maybe I took that a little too far but I don't see any safe way out of it.>
TUCKER: Forget it. <I'm such an idiot.> I'd appreciate it if we could keep this between us. <Please GOD don't let the rest of the ship know what just happened.> In fact, we probably should forget it ever happened. <How does THAT feel, huh? Taste of your own medicine.>
T'POL: Agreed. <I definitely took that too far.>
TUCKER: <You know, I don't buy it. She was wild last night. 'Exploration' my ass.> Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure though. <If she's wearing those pajamas, I'm still in.>
T'POL: <I'll wear the red PJs tonight. I think he likes those best.>

That reminds me of my own attempt, in my "Depths"

Trip was hurt but he sees an opening and is being hopeful that he can keep his foot in the door to prevent her from shutting him down totally. He takes a risk to salvage what he can from her backpedaling so he can regroup, nurse his wounded pride, continue to get his emotional issues under control, and get her to revisit furthering their relationship another day.

Don't know but Explore and experiment are designed to find an answer so they mean the same thing.

The looks exchanged at the end of the scene the morning after. Trip asks her about continuig the NP his look says he thinks they will and that she is not being truthful. Her look says he is right. She had the you bet we will but I am not going to say it here.

Always hated that scene. It made no sense at all given wht had gone on the night before. I always wondered what the writers would have done if they let Tnt make love the whole night. They get up he goes to his quarters, showers and puts on afresh Unifor she does the same. How would she change her mind so quickly. I imagine their parting would have been loving before he crept out of her quarters. That stupid Alien thing and "all senior Officer report to your stations gave the writers the opportunity to give T-Pol time to think abut what she had done and come up with the wrong conclusion.


I honestly, when I first watched Harbinger, beleived that at the start of the mmorning after scene it would be the start of an Intimate affair between the two.

So the general consensus is he's so utterly and completely devestated that he is hiding every ounce of pain, in his wounded heart and he cannot believe her when she said he wasn't an experiment. All of that and he's still willing to do neuropressure? After being so cruely treated? Astonishing! Why can I not see that? I guess Trip is a screwed up sadomasochist. I hope you all understand that's sarcasm.

pdsldl wrote:Trip was hurt but he sees an opening and is being hopeful that he can keep his foot in the door to prevent her from shutting him down totally. He takes a risk to salvage what he can from her backpedaling so he can regroup, nurse his wounded pride, continue to get his emotional issues under control, and get her to revisit furthering their relationship another day.

Exactly, and something tells me he was right.

pdsldl wrote:Trip was hurt but he sees an opening and is being hopeful that he can keep his foot in the door to prevent her from shutting him down totally. He takes a risk to salvage what he can from her backpedaling so he can regroup, nurse his wounded pride, continue to get his emotional issues under control, and get her to revisit furthering their relationship another day.

Right again. And Alelou's fill-in-the-blanks version is spot on.

No one said he was devastated. He was hurt and men have their pride and tend not to show it when we woman are less than tactful in our rejection of them. It's a skill they learn early as they are usually expected to put themselves out there first and ask a woman out. They also learn that they have to swallow a lot of hurt sometimes and bide their time until they can convince said woman they are worth taking a risk on.

WarpGirl wrote:So the general consensus is he's so utterly and completely devestated that he is hiding every ounce of pain, in his wounded heart and he cannot believe her when she said he wasn't an experiment. All of that and he's still willing to do neuropressure? After being so cruely treated? Astonishing! Why can I not see that? I guess Trip is a screwed up sadomasochist. I hope you all understand that's sarcasm.

No, really?

I can't even remember what the original point here is.

No, I don't think Trip was devastated, once he got past the initial kicked in the gut feeling. But she did accidentally deliver a little kick in the gut. A lot of people get deeply offended on Trip's behalf. Personally I don't think it was That Big A Deal. It was similar to the same back-and-forth that got them kissing in the first place. Their subplot was essentially a romantic comedy thread in that episode (along with Hayes and Reed, snort).

In later episodes their relationship is treated much more seriously, with a lot more angst.

Romantic Comedy? I am not sure that Trip would feel that anything was funny about being Seduced at night and then told to forget it the next mornig as it was just an exploration and had no meaning other than that for T-Pol the next morning. I am probably missing something here so don't mind me.

I didn't see anything comic about being rejected nor did I think it funny that Trip sucked it up and tried to keep things at what had been the status quo until her seduction and the morning after. An d I find it hard to believe any man writing such a scene would have written it as something humorous. I took it more as his southern charm thing trying to act all cool with things and make the best out of the situation.

pdsldl wrote:... And I find it hard to believe any man writing such a scene would have written it as something humorous.

Probably most women, too.
Speaking seriously, I perceive all that as one of the worse plots I have seen. That doesn't mean that there wasn't a handful of pleasant scenes. For example, I loved the unconsciously flirtatious T'Pol just before she seduced Trip. But doesn't be enough to safe the whole stuff.
And luckily we have two very good actors.

Silverbullet wrote:Romantic Comedy? I am not sure that Trip would feel that anything was funny about being Seduced at night and then told to forget it the next mornig as it was just an exploration and had no meaning other than that for T-Pol the next morning. I am probably missing something here so don't mind me.

"An exploration" is the only thing you say there that is actually in what T'Pol said.

And whoever said characters in a romantic comedy think it's funny when it's happening to THEM? Harry and Sally definitely didn't enjoy their misunderstandings, but the audience did -- or at least the part of the audience that had a sense of humor did.

I still maintain that if that morning-after scene was meant to show Trip OR T'Pol being truly devastated, it would not have ended with the line about neuropressure. Hell, even her cagey little expression with the tea cup was comic. (Of course, for those of us desperately rooting for episodes after episode for them to live happily ever after, it was more painful than for general audience members.)

Having said that it's meant to be comic, I don't mind in the least when a fanfic author wants to treat it seriously from Trip or T'Pol's point of view as something to get seriously upset about. If you're writing in either of their points of view, that's totally legit. Besides, that's why we have fanfic. You can play it however you want to play it.

Comic to the audience while I didn't see it I can see where others might. I saw it as Trip's way of keeping the lines open and T'Pol in her confusion about what to do and wanting to keep him from wanting to push things forward reacted with a little relief that he wasn't going to stop being her friend.