AU or Not AU?

[WarpGirl]

I'm just trying to follow the rules! But now I actually have to see Twilight now. Dang I would love to not see or hear that word for a while though. It's taken over everything. Stupid movies, stupid books!

[honeybee]

So I can see why 'Twilight' might be a highly-favored episode by viewers in general, without implying they are in the A/T camp.

For all the grousing and negativity I hear about reset button episodes - people really seem to like them and respond to them. Yesterday's Enterprise, The Visitor and Twilight are all very beloved episodes for the narrative tension they create. They have to opportunity to show the characters in much different and darker circumstances that is normal for Trek. Also, the characters get to do things that would not allow the main story continue.

For all the talk of Twilight being an Archer episode, T'Pol and Phlox both show they are willing to sacrifice their own lives for a better future at the end - and they are both characters that could have escaped to their home worlds. This is assuming they did not realize that the Xindi/sphere builders would eventually destroy them. Archer sacrifices himself, but humans have nothing to lose at that point. And your point is very well-taken that T'Pol's loyalty to Archer can be taken outside of any romantic context - and actually plays better if she is acting out of friendship/honor debt rather than romantic love.

And I do think it is on topic to discuss Twilight in this thread, since Twilight created an alternative timeline or Canon AU for writers to work with. As for the A/T implications, I think I resolved them by the end of my story Dusk - so I feel free to love that episode without reservation now.

[WarpGirl]

I'll let you know when I see it. I loved Sim, and I didn't expect too. (no not because of the mushy stuff, I was always cool with that)

[Alelou]

I like the episode "Twilight" too, mind you. The thin gruel IMO is for the A/T crowd, not the general audience. In terms of interesting story line and character study that porridge is plenty thick.

[Silverbullet]

I keep remembering T-Pol's belief that "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few" so her duty would be to the many and she would not focus on Archer because he was the few. Her duty was elsewhere. (of course sussman wanted an A/T love story.)

T-POl did put the needs of the many, Humans, when she resigned ther commmision to stay on the Enterprise over the needs of the few, Vulcan as far as she kew was not in danger from the xindi so the vulcans were the few. there was precedent for her not staying with Archer but to follow her duty to the many.

[WarpGirl]

But if I remember correctly, the episode tried to make it seem like it was her fault that Archer was in the mess he was in. And that things didn't go too well under her command. She could have logically deduced remaining in command would cause more harm than good. So she decided to make herself valuable in another way. I don't see the decision as contrary to logic. The guilt over what happened to make Archer sick is illogical, but her actions seem very Vulcan to me. Just not her thought process. Then again I haven't seen it yet. What do I know.

[honeybee]

That's a fair criticism, Silverbullet. I had to resolve that in my story as well - but I do think T'Pol believed she had an honor debt to Archer, since she believed that she would be the ill one without his intervention. That is very clear in the episode. However, if I were to puzzle that out in my head - taking care of all the humans and being captain of Enterprise (which she was for three years) is a more logical way of paying that debt than being Archer's nursemaid. Seeing her step into his place as best she could is more interesting to me.

I was very curious as to what prompted her to stop being captain and head to the surface with Archer - so I wrote a backstory for that as well.

Vulcans seem to have ethical systems that could logically contradict one another - the needs of the many, family honor, honor debts to others. . . and that at it best can create conflict for a species that doesn't react emotionally. Or doesn't want react emotionally.

[WarpGirl]

Well I think that goes back to the fact that Vulcans DO have emotions that some say are more powerful than a human's emotions. They need such strict codes of conduct in order for them to function, and not go nuts. I'm not sure I'd say they were conflicting though. More like guidelines to help a person make their own logical choice. What may be logical to one person is completely illogical to another. So a Vulcan must choose which guidelines to follow in their unique situation, usually choosing the course of action to best control their emotions. Maybe T'Pol thought the only way to control her guilt was to care for Archer.

[Silverbullet]

T-Pol had a lifetime of the needs of many drilled in to her. She was not guilty for the anomoly so why should she feel guilty because Archer saved her from it. Gratitude, yes but guilt no. Still being a vulcan would be difficult for her to overcome. she would have gravitatd to the needs of the many. Archer would have help ven if she didn't provide it. She would have been shirking her duty both to the many but to ARcher too by concentrating solely on him and leaving the rest to fend for itself.

I wonder hhat Sussman had reallly written that wasn't put into the episode. Maybe a sizzling scene where Archer and T-Pol get it on.

YUK

[WarpGirl]

You know Silverbullet part of the fun of doing this is to listen to other interpitations and theory's. And yeah I don't like A/T either but Sussman din't do anything wrong. And according to what I read he never wrote any sizzling anything for the pisode.

[Alelou]

I know we've already been through this, but how COULD you have anything sizzling with a guy who can't remember anything new for more than 24 hours? It's just impossible, unless you were already hot for each other before it happened. I suppose you could have some meaningless sex just to have some, but that would be about it...

Oh God, I just imagined Phlox telling T'Pol the captain really needs to get laid at least once in awhile.

[WarpGirl]

[Silverbullet]

I haven't read anything either that doesn't mean he did not write something like that. Someone wrote that much, much of what sussman wrote was not included in the episode. So, perhaps it ws to controversial. If the Suits had decided that TnT was the way the series was going (sussman himself said before he wrote Twilight he knew that Harbinger was planned) They may have told Sussman that anything like that would not be allowed. Sussman was intent on A/T and wanted to swing the focus from TnT to A/T What better way than twilight and a hot Scene between Archer and T-Pol. since ANIS didn't set off any sparks or fan demand for A/T

[WarpGirl]

Oh God you don't give up! Fine hate Sussman if you want.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, I don't hate Sussman I was just speculating on what he may have wrote since he was writing a A/T love Story as he admited. You have a problem with that?