Is T'Pol part Camel?

[panyasan]

Mmm... I agree the inside of a Vulcan looks awfully crowded and no extra organ for water, but... maybe this organ is placed behind all of these? (Yeah, I know, pretty lame explanation, but I like the extra organ-theory so much).

[Cogito]

Surely it's far more practical to assume they simply need less water. After all, if they still needed substantially more water than they could get from the environment, you'd expect to find them parked round watering holes topping up (and looking quite a lot bigger afterwards). I've checked quite carefully and I don't see any signs that T'Pol was carrying large amounts of water inside her.

It seems more likely to me that they simply need less water. They normally don't sweat, have dry breath, much less water in their urine and simply require much less water than humans even in hot conditions. Perhaps they need a litre a day in hot conditions rather than a litre an hour that we humans would need, that sort of thing. After all, humans evolved on a planet that is mostly water so hardly surprising that our bodies use it so much more freely.

[panyasan]

It seems more likely to me that they simply need less water. They normally don't sweat, have dry breath, much less water in their urine and simply require much less water than humans even in hot conditions. Perhaps they need a litre a day in hot conditions rather than a litre an hour that we humans would need, that sort of thing. After all, humans evolved on a planet that is mostly water so hardly surprising that our bodies use it so much more freely.

You made an excellent case, Cogito.

[Brandyjane]

I suspect it's a little bit of both: Vulcans require quite a bit less water than humans, their bodies use/process water more efficiently, and they have an organ or organs to store extra water for times when they can't get even the lesser amount their bodies need. The organ could be packed in behind all of their other organs, I suppose, but does it have to be one big water-storage organ? It could be a system of small water-storage organs packed in and around their other organs. Or maybe they have something like the human lymphatic system that flows throughout their body but that stores/transports water.

[Cogito]

Maybe, but an organ that was basically a bag of water would be very vulnerable to damage (and therefore natural selection would make that unlikely) and would also require complex mechanisms to collect and disperse water when required. In humans I believe water is stored throughout the body in our cells and in our blood which means it's available where it's needed without having to be moved around within the body. Wouldn't that be a more logical solution on Vulcan too?

[WarpGirl]

Cogito you rock! You managed to make sound scientific sense and keep in canon! Truthfully, I agree an extra organ is a good idea, but all of what we know thus far is that Vulcans simply do not need as much water as we do, they can drink as much as they choose but they don't have too. Their bodies are super efficant at staying healthy without nearly as much food and water as ours. It does make sense, they live on a desert world where food and water would have been precious resources during the time they were "evolving".

Has anyone noticed that besides Kov, Sybok, and V'Lar (although I think in her case she's just older) there are no Vulcans who are obese? And both Sybok and Kov abandoned Vulcan traditions. Typically Vulcans have extremely fast metabolisms, and their vegetarian diets are paced with tons of water from the fruits and veggies. Also they don't eat huge portions like we do. Take a look at T'Pol's plate and compare with the humans. Typically, she eats like a bird, and so does every other Vulcan but Kov!

And look at their fertility cycles... A low birthrate, usually 1 child born every 7 years to a couple, twins a rarity, and rarely more than 1 or 2 children in an entire life time of 200 years... On earth that wouls spell doom! But on a desert world it's actually practical.

[Silverbullet]

I can go along with less need since T'Pol grew up on a desert Planet it would seem natural for her species to develope less need for a scarce resource. also go along with an effieicnt storage system. Prolly need a Doctor (Anatomist) who could provide some sort of design for that. Still not having the ability to sweat would be a hazard on a desert planet. Sweating cools the body and if Vulcans don't sweat they would be overheating easily. So doubt if they lack sweat glands. Unless they have another means of cooling themselves.

Camels can tolerate higher temperaturs so they don't need to sweat as much but they still do.

Think that a Vulcan would too. Wonder if a Vulcan might absorb some fluids from a Shower? Absorbing it through their skin.

T'Pol being on the Enterprise would live in a Human friendly environment which means a good deal of moisture in the atmosphere. Would that upset her normal body functions re Water retention and use?


SB

[WarpGirl]

See edit above...

About the cooling thing... The Vulcan circulatory and respitory systems take care of that. The way their blood flows helps. And they sort of pant like dogs. Dogs don't sweat. I don't think bats do either.

[Silverbullet]

Don't recall seeing T'Pol pant like a Dog. RE Blood flow. If the blood is too warm how can it cool. Sweating cools the skin. the blood comes near the skin so it too is cooled. also, if too warm the brain shuts down. Other organs suffer too. Do the Vulcan shave an internal cooling system? Perhaps some freon running along with blood? Sweating cools and is necessary for that.

Don't know if Bats sweat or not. Only thing I know about bats is that they hang down from the ceilings of caves.

SB

[Cogito]

Dogs cool themselves by panting using evaporative cooling. Its the same mechanism as humans use when we sweat, but of course sweating isn't very practical when you're covered in fur.

If Vulcans cooled by panting they'd have to expend water to do it, just like we do when we sweat, which would go counter to our theory that they don't require much water even in hot conditions. It could be that Vulcans can simply tolerate having their body temperature rise. Humans can't - it only needs a few degrees rise to kill us - which is why we expend so much effort (and water) keeping cool. But on a planet where you simply can't stay that cool, you'd pretty much have to tolerate a higher body temperature, wouldn't you?

I like the idea that a Vulcan, having evolved to suit an environment where heat was the main threat, would find a cool touch comforting - e.g. contact with her favorite starfleet engineer. Just as a human, having evolved during an ice age, would find warmth comforting - e.g. contact with his favorite pointy-eared science officer.

[WarpGirl]

This is when canon contradicts itself. In some episodes Vulcans have a higher body temp, in the "official" reference works they have a much lower body tempature. SB We never see anyone use a toilet in ST. Just because we've never seen a Vulcan pant doesn't mean they don't. I admit I'm confused as to how it works, but I didn't make it up. And remember aliens don't have to work with what we know to be true.

[Cogito]

That doesn't necessarily mean that canon contradicts itself. If we suppose that the most comfortable body temperature for a Vulcan is slightly below human norm, but they can tolerate much higher body temperatures if necessary, it could even be taken as supporting the theory I've suggested above.

Since poor old T'Pol doesn't like icy conditions I'd also speculate that Vulcans have limited tolerance for lower body temperatures, and also have relatively little capability to generate heat when they get cold. It all makes sense when you think of Vulcans as low calory creatures designed to generate as little heat as possible to survive in extremely hot conditions.

[WarpGirl]

Well, 91F is supposedly the average temp. Which would be around hypothermia or death for us. And even though I cannot find the VOY episode where either Vorik or Tuvok is burning up and Doc says they'll be fine because of a higher temp, I know it exists... It bothers me that I can't find it.

Either way, you make more sense than what I know.

[Silverbullet]

I know that in many Fanfics T'Pol has a higher body temp which can be good or bad depending. In Bed with Trip the Temp could be a little uncomfortable. Now if she is in a fight or is running or having Sex I would assume her body temp would go up a bit because of the increased Heart rate.

Never saw or heard any reference that Vulcans Pant like a Dog. Sweating cools by evaoration. Camels have a system where the water used to sweat is not released into the air but is recycled into the Camels body. Could be Vulcans are the same.

I like Panyasan's suggestion of a Organ to store Water.

Camels can and do drink 30 gallons of water in 13 minutes,. that is a lot of water and I doubt if their stomachs hold that much volume. Camels legs are thin, Neck and Head would not be used as a reservoir for water. Trunk would have Organs and intestines taking up much of the space. so where does the Camel put that 30 gallons it drinks in 13 minutes. It must have some storage area and the Hump would seem to be the only place available.

Perhaps a Vulcan has many ways of storing water and ingesting it. They might not only drink but absorb some of it by osmosis. Who knows.

anyway, T'Pol has stated at least once, perhaps more, that she needs less water than a human.

SB

[Cogito]

Camels have a system where the water used to sweat is not released into the air but is recycled into the Camels body.

That sounds extraordinary, and I'm struggling to imagine how it works. Got any more details about that?