"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[aadarshinah]

Does this make anyone else suddenly wonder what that Klingon was doing in a cornfield on Earth in the first place?

Another question about that episode: To get to Kronos from Earth, you have to go through the Borderlands, especially if you pass by Rigel. Yet not only is the potential threat from the Orions even mentioned by the Vulcans - who'd you think would've seized anything to keep Starfleet from lauching Enterprise quite so soon - but no one in "Borderland"

ARCHER: There's also the fact that he spent time in the Borderland.
HOSHI: The Borderland?
REED: The area where the Klingon ship was attacked.
T'POL: It's a volatile region between the Klingon Empire and the Orion Syndicate. It attracts the most dangerous elements from both.

seems to remember that they've had to have passed that way before....

[Navigator]

Just read 62. Oh, Wow! To paraphrase another famous quote, "We are goin' into nucular combat toe t' toe wit' the Xindi." YeeHaaah!

[Navigator]

You know, I am sitting here in great anticipation of the "Railcar Hijack".

[aadarshinah]

I'm thinking more of "The Train Job"...

[hth2k]

Odd that the ship is intact. The Orions were able to commandeer it and use it so no Vulcan only protocols? Did the Orions have Vulcans enslaved to drive it? If so what happened to them? Here the first thing we would do is take the dang thing apart to see what makes it work. More like this bunch would take it apart and not figure anything out and leave it in pieces scattered all over the place. How long have they had it? Remember the MiG 25 we gave back to the Russians in pieces?

So assuming they get close enough, T'Pol just walks up to it and gives the Vulcan "Open sessame" and they hop in and boogie.

Well wait and see I guess.

I do like what you are doing with the entire story line. Archer is growing painfully but much more than on the series. Like he references to TOS as well. Good work.

Pleased to see this continuing.

HtH

[Transwarp]

this bunch would take it apart and not figure anything out and leave it in pieces scattered all over the place.

I'll bet they TRIED to get inside it, but just wore out their drill bits and cutting torches against the hull. They haven't resorted to more drastic measures because I don't think they want it in pieces, they want it intact so they can use it.

[Thot]

Odd that the ship is intact. The Orions were able to commandeer it and use it so no Vulcan only protocols?

I can easily fathom the idea, that Vulcans are so paranoid with their technology that you can run the ship itself after cracking the normal security measures on your own, what also includes to insert additional or alternative software into the ship, but underneath it all, the Vulcan security codes are still embedded to ensure access to any Vulcan officer/citizen in order to reclaim it.
To get rid of the codes, you would have to exchange the whole memory core, what isn't necessarily in the interest of the Orions since they probably highjacked it, put the crew into slavery and used the ship itself without too much problems.
Therefore, considering Vulcans potentially paranoid attitude with their technology and the Orion attitude not to fuzz too much about "acquired equipment", I find it quite convincing.

Did the Orions have Vulcans enslaved to drive it? If so what happened to them?

Vulcan slaves should be quite profitable, since they are "cooperative" in their situation, don't need too much surplies - as long as the VHC doesn't know about it.

Here the first thing we would do is take the dang thing apart to see what makes it work. More like this bunch would take it apart and not figure anything out and leave it in pieces scattered all over the place. How long have they had it? Remember the MiG 25 we gave back to the Russians in pieces?

There several things to consider:
1) What's the technological status of Ekos? Something like 20s/30s of the 20th century in the western hemisphere? Now compare this to a Vulcan deep space vessel...
Do they even have the resources to take it apart? Are effective cutting torches at hand? Does it even leave a single scratch on the hull? I doubt it, since the ship has to handle the flight through the atmosphere of a planet with thousands of degree Celsius.
2) Even if they could open it: Could they even begin to handle the technology without risking to blow themself up any minute? Let us think that the level of technology of the Vulcan ship equals Enterprise - this isn't the case since the Vulcan one is probably more advanced in technology and manufacturing - but for the sake of it.
That makes the 20s of the 20th century compared with the fictional middle of the 22th century about 200-250 years distance. Let's round it up to 300 to count in that the Vulcan technology is even more advanced than the human one.
How let's just count back from today about 300 years: Just fathom what would happen, if Isaac Newton gets his fingers on your PC. Does he even know the concept of electricity? Benjamin Franklins fly with his kite is still decades away. So how should Isaac handle the electronics let alone the fundamental basics behind it?

Therefore, Rigil gets my thumb up for the way to get Trip and T'Pol off the planet.

In addition, to base T'Pol's hesitation to get "too close" with Trip on her concern to infect him with Pa'Nar-Syndrome gives the acting of the figure creditability.

So assuming they get close enough, T'Pol just walks up to it and gives the Vulcan "Open sessame" and they hop in and boogie.

Well wait and see I guess.

We are talking here about a Rigil Kent story - this can't work just smoothly for Trip and T'Pol - everything else would be a huge surprise.

[Navigator]

So, since Trip is not a member of the VHC, etc., you think he might get prize money for his part in returning s missing ship?

[aadarshinah]

So, since Trip is not a member of the VHC, etc., you think he might get prize money for his part in returning s missing ship?

Vulcans, I am sure, have moved passed such "base" and "uncivilized" things as currancy. Knowing the High Command, they'll only say something on how long it took them to bring it back, or comment on the condition it's in.

And, I can't for the life of me remember a cannon example, but I remember in the novelization of "Broken Bow," it called T'Pol's outfit a "Vulcan commisar's uniform," which leads me to believe there is, well, some sort of non-monetary-based society in place.

[Alelou]

Or it could just reflect Diane Carey's conservative politics/dislike of T'Pol's outfit.

[Rigil Kent]

The Orions were able to commandeer it and use it so no Vulcan only protocols?

There is more to it than just that. I tried to imply that the Orions took this ship via piracy - scarring near the top airlock and all - but I will be going into some more detail as time progresses. A little, anyway.

this bunch would take it apart and not figure anything out and leave it in pieces scattered all over the place.

I'll bet they TRIED to get inside it, but just wore out their drill bits and cutting torches against the hull. They haven't resorted to more drastic measures because I don't think they want it in pieces, they want it intact so they can use it.

This was my intention. As Thot points out, the level of technology available at the Ekosian's disposal is such that it's nearly impossible for them to gain access.

That makes the 20s of the 20th century compared with the fictional middle of the 22th century about 200-250 years distance. Let's round it up to 300 to count in that the Vulcan technology is even more advanced than the human one.

Only three hundred? I'd probably round it up to at least 400 or so as the ENT-era Vulcans seem far more advanced than that (remember T'Pol's remark about Vulcan children playing with toys more advanced than ENT's sensors?) Unlike humans, they just seem to progress (technologically, societally, and so on) in a far slower fashion than humans (so we Terrans are easily able to catch up and surpass them by Kirk's era.)

And, I can't for the life of me remember a cannon example, but I remember in the novelization of "Broken Bow," it called T'Pol's outfit a "Vulcan commisar's uniform," which leads me to believe there is, well, some sort of non-monetary-based society in place.

Well, to me, they did seem to be trying to establish that the High Command was very much a borderline totalitarian society, so "commissar" seems a legitimate term to use.

Not sure what one's "conservative politics" has to do with that. *shrug*

[Alelou]

Just that Diane Carey clearly has them. I think she's a good writer but I really got tired of her axe-grinding.

[Rigil Kent]

Just that Diane Carey clearly has them. I think she's a good writer but I really got tired of her axe-grinding.

I'd be interested to know if my own personal hardcore right-wing neo-fascist leanings come to play then...

Yeah, that's a little facetious. But just a little.

[aadarshinah]

Not sure what one's "conservative politics" has to do with that. *shrug*

If anything, I would think "commissar" would the opposite of a conservative extreme. Went to dictionary.com just in case I'd confused it with something else, but it's definition is:

com·mis·sar   /ˈkɒməˌsɑr, ˌkɒməˈsɑr/
–noun
1. the head of any of the major governmental divisions of the U.S.S.R.: called minister since 1946.
2. an official in any communist government whose duties include political indoctrination, detection of political deviation, etc.

A true communist state would definately imply that there's no reward money - sorry Navigator - but, in all likelihood, the Vulcan goverment is closer to socialism than communism... But this isn't the place for theroies on ENT-era Vulcan politics....

I'd be interested to know if my own personal hardcore right-wing neo-fascist leanings come to play then...

Yeah, that's a little facetious. But just a little.

Of course it is....

[Alelou]

Taking you seriously instead of facetiously, your politics do peek out occasionally, but it's not very intrusive. Yours are more commonly found in your profile and such. Though I suppose your recent chapter in which Starfleet and Earth's government are clearly run by a bunch of morons qualifies, now that I think about it.

You write even better than Diane Carey, though, and I'm on board for the delicious TnT rather than your world view, so it would hardly stop me from reading. IDIC and all that.