"Divergent Paths" Discussion

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Rigil Kent
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Rigil Kent » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:19 pm

Transwarp wrote:My only niggle with this chapter (and it's a small one) was the way the bond seemed to be influencing him. As if it were a living thing, forcing him to come to the aide of his mate; a reckless influence that he had to fight against to keep from charging forward in a blind, Vulcan rage. I have never gone for depictions of bonds in fan fiction that seem to transplant Vulcan biological imperatives onto humans, that seem to create irresistible urges within the human partner that are contrary to human nature. (My own version of the bond may be quite powerful--the full-featured 'telepathic telephone' that you've stated you wish to avoid--but it doesn't replace Trip's human nature with a Vulcan one.)

Then again, it's possible the bond's affects were magnified by his weakened physical condition and mental exhaustion. I am certainly looking forward to see how the two handle this new feature of their relationship.

There are a number of extenuating circumstances that come into play that only I as the author am fully cognizant of that explain this sort of thing, first and foremost being the Pa'nar she is still suffering from (almost nine human months since her last treatment with Phlox, whatever it was) but also, as you point out, Trip's weakened physical and mental condition. I'm not really sure that the bond urging him forward is really against his nature - even without its presence, do you think that Trip wouldn't drive himself into the ground in a desperate attempt to rescue T'Pol? For that matter, I think it's entirely in his character to do something like that regardless of the identity of his partner. But that's just me and we all have differing perceptions of the characters and the show itself.
hth2k wrote:Thogh I would not be shocked if the old man faked the heart attack. (Being an old man myself.) "Old age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm every time" as they say.

What I was trying to imply in a subtle way with the open fear T'Pol first heard in his voice and with how the dude looked at Trip's high-tech weaponry was that this guy was a survivor from the raid that Ferran spoke about and has seen extraekosian (heh) creatures unleash their horrific weaponry on his people before. He knows perfectly well what aliens are capable of and it terrifies him. So he wasn't faking. He saw another alien show up, this one who looked just like a fellow ekosian, and the stress was just too much for him.
Ask a soldier that has done house to house in Iraq about making assumptions about who is and is not a threat. Grebades in baby beds, Wounded down non-uniformed men rolling grenades or pulling hidden pistols or rifles. Kids walking up with grenades or explosives strapped to them. It is hard and getting harder in the real world. Heard on the radio this afternoon the Taliban publicly hung a 7 year old boy as a spy. Makes you want to cry or just kill them all.

Yeah, I know. I've got a couple of buddies who are still active duty, one of whom was, until recently, a Ranger who was doing the house-to-house stuff in Afghanistan. Some of the stories he told were pretty harrowing.
As for the Goering emulator, if the rifle but happened to be tilted to drive the nise up into the brain during the butt stroke...during the rescue, is that murder? Kill him after he is down, different issue entirely.

Actually, I think driving the nose up into the brain is something of an urban legend. From FightingArts.com I found this rather pertinent line:
First, the nose is primarily composed of malleable cartilage which does not posses the tensile strength necessary to penetrate the thick actual bone of which the skull is comprised. Second, even if the nose were entirely made of bone (and remember it isn’t!) it would not be long enough to reach the brain.

The sheer mechanics of accomplishing this are daunting. First, there is the crista galli, a thick, smooth, triangular piece of bone that projects from the bone that forms the roof of the nasal cavity (cribriform plate). Though there are small openings in the cribiform plate which allow nerves to pass through, they are not large enough to allow a mass of splintered bone to enter the brain case, nor are they direct conduits to the brain.

So him doing that really isn't likely. Ignoring that, the point is valid and requires an answer - no, I don't think it is murder if he went in and accidentally killed someone during his rescue attempt (modern politically correct courts would no doubt disagree with me there, but I'm very much opposed to PC in all its forms because I see it as a "soft tyranny"), but if he shot them in the head after they were down? Yeah. That's murder. It's a slippery slope and a very thin line, but that's my opinion.
I do think even in his addled state and more likely well before now, he has figured out what he is willing to do if his or her life is at risk. I don't think the answer is the same for him as her.

I have no doubt that he would kill or die to save her life. If it had come down to it here, then, yes, I think Trip would have killed to retrieve her. Just as she would do the same for him.
Does not matter really. Likely the interrogation was recorded in some form. (Wire recorders have been around since the 1840s.)

Ah, but given how lightly defended the airfield was, I had intended for this to be little more than a quick stop before they transported her to a more secure facility. But your point is a valid one...
Does the email thingy work?
If this develops like some discussions I recall from long ago the forum probably isn't a good place. My old one
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Yeah. Whatever's easiest. I don't think anything we've discussed here on the boards is out of bounds, but that's up to you.
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:41 pm

Rigil Kent wrote:
As for the Goering emulator, if the rifle but happened to be tilted to drive the nise up into the brain during the butt stroke...during the rescue, is that murder? Kill him after he is down, different issue entirely.

Actually, I think driving the nose up into the brain is something of an urban legend. From FightingArts.com I found this rather pertinent line:
First, the nose is primarily composed of malleable cartilage which does not posses the tensile strength necessary to penetrate the thick actual bone of which the skull is comprised. Second, even if the nose were entirely made of bone (and remember it isn’t!) it would not be long enough to reach the brain.

The sheer mechanics of accomplishing this are daunting. First, there is the crista galli, a thick, smooth, triangular piece of bone that projects from the bone that forms the roof of the nasal cavity (cribriform plate). Though there are small openings in the cribiform plate which allow nerves to pass through, they are not large enough to allow a mass of splintered bone to enter the brain case, nor are they direct conduits to the brain.

But that's how Human skulls and noses are. This was an Ekosian.

I'm not saying he should be different. I'm just putting it out there...
She's got an awfully nice bum!
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Rigil Kent » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:27 pm

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:But that's how Human skulls and noses are. This was an Ekosian.

Which I have established very early on are identical to humans apart from some slightly more delicate nervous systems.
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:24 pm

Oh, forgot about that...
She's got an awfully nice bum!
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby hth2k » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:48 am

I caught that he was nervous and noticed the pistols but didn't make any further connection other than that he may have seen such devices before, Thus thought he may be a leader or one of heavy influence perhaps an elder scientist. your further explanation makes more sense.

Ok, I was thinking of an early 20th century military rifle, '03 Springfields, '98 Mauser, etc. 8-9 lb. bolt action rifles with wood stocks and usually steel butt-plates. Most of the ones I've seen, handled, shot have a fairly pointed toe on the butt that would wreak havoc on most skulls. Looking at the butt end of my 6.5 Sweed I don't want to think about what that would do across the bridge of the nose swung by an angry determined man. I had to take anatomy in school also.

I do not doubt either of them being able and willing to protect the other, Was less certain about self preservation drive differences.

No biggie, just an unrelated question.

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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Elessar » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:08 am

Didn't sound very vague to me.

Rigil's correct. 99.99% of the discussion going on is absolutely fine. Everyone knows what's 'not ok' and in most cases it's tangential to the conversation anyway.

And in my feeble attempt to contribute to that conversation :lol: my only experience with the strength of the butt of a 20th century bolt action rifle is that I was theatrically able to remove a hollow core door and its frame from the wall with the butt of a 1928 Mosin Nagant M91/30 :lol: 8)
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Navigator » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:51 am

Elessar wrote:Didn't sound very vague to me.

Rigil's correct. 99.99% of the discussion going on is absolutely fine. Everyone knows what's 'not ok' and in most cases it's tangential to the conversation anyway.

And in my feeble attempt to contribute to that conversation :lol: my only experience with the strength of the butt of a 20th century bolt action rifle is that I was theatrically able to remove a hollow core door and its frame from the wall with the butt of a 1928 Mosin Nagant M91/30 :lol: 8)
[quote="Elessar"]Didn't sound very vague to me.

Good use for a Russian rifle. :badgrin: Considering the Ekosians' "twitchier" nervous systems and the fact that the weapon the Cop used to shoot T'Pol early in the story was small caliber, one might extrapolate that their service rifles aren't as large as mid-20th century Earth ones. I'm thinking more cadet rifle size. He's still hurt but less likely to be dead. Could be wrong - just guessing - only Rigil knows for sure.

Just finished chapter 58 - it was ideal and exactly what would happen. Totally past exhaustion. No reserves left.

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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Rigil Kent » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:31 am

hth2k wrote:I caught that he was nervous and noticed the pistols but didn't make any further connection other than that he may have seen such devices before, Thus thought he may be a leader or one of heavy influence perhaps an elder scientist. your further explanation makes more sense.

Yeah, it was one of those subtle things that I think could have been a little more clear if I'd inserted a single line from the guy mentioning how he'd actually seen what these creatures could do.
Navigator wrote:Considering the Ekosians' "twitchier" nervous systems and the fact that the weapon the Cop used to shoot T'Pol early in the story was small caliber, one might extrapolate that their service rifles aren't as large as mid-20th century Earth ones. I'm thinking more cadet rifle size. He's still hurt but less likely to be dead. Could be wrong - just guessing - only Rigil knows for sure.

No, you're not wrong. That's generally how I'm approaching it. The rounds they fire aren't as big as what you'd find on Earth in the equivalent time period (but a well-placed shot would kill you just as dead.) Plus, as has been pointed out, Trip's exhausted and in pain so the power he puts behind that buttstroke isn't as deadly as it could be otherwise.
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Alelou » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:53 am

Okay OKC guy -- check in and let us know you didn't wash away in the flood...

Or maybe we have more than one here...?
OMG, ANOTHER new chapter! NORTH STAR Chapter 28
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Rigil Kent » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:27 am

Alelou wrote:Okay OKC guy -- check in and let us know you didn't wash away in the flood...

I'm fine. Just generally busy trying to find a job so I can make rent and eat. :doubt:
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Alelou » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:03 pm

There's a new chapter up, in case anyone else had also feared it might take months for another one... yippee!
OMG, ANOTHER new chapter! NORTH STAR Chapter 28
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Thot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:51 am

New chapter up! :happyjump:

Well, concerning the alternations of the plot: Understandable, although you chose to use the sledgehammer instead. I'm fine with it, but still... :explode:

Thanks for the hints on some Trek figures.

My guess, which people are meant:
SPOILER!!!:
Tuvok, T'Pol/Trip, Spock, Spock/Kirk/Surak, Sarek and Amanda, a Vulcan with Beverly Crusher?
What the hell is Surak doing with Spock and Kirk?



If I remember corretly, in an earlier chapter you made some hints about Malcolm and Elizabeth... Still on the radar or did you drop it?
Personally, I would love to see something like that.
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby aadarshinah » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:13 am

SPOILER!!!:
What the hell is Surak doing with Spock and Kirk?


Take a look at the TOS episode "The Savage Curtain" or a peek at http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Surak, the "Image of Surak" part.

SPOILER!!!:
Anyone else as bitten by the idea of a Suval/Hernadez crack!ship as I am?

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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby Rigil Kent » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:51 am

Thot wrote:Well, concerning the alternations of the plot: Understandable, although you chose to use the sledgehammer instead. I'm fine with it, but still... :explode:

I have no idea what that means.
If I remember corretly, in an earlier chapter you made some hints about Malcolm and Elizabeth... Still on the radar or did you drop it?

Was never really on the radar actually. There were several people who automatically assumed that I was going to do a Mal/Lizzie ship because I had them be friends (thanks to Trip), and it's always possible it might happen again way down the road, but right now, the distances won't work. Mal will be in the Expanse, seeking to wage a blood-soaked revenge campaign against the Xindi, while Lizzie is on Vulcan doing architecture stuff. And no, that doesn't mean I'm going to do a Koss/Lizzie thing either. :D I just wanted to do a Male/Female relationship that was purely platonic.
aadarshinah wrote:
SPOILER!!!:
What the hell is Surak doing with Spock and Kirk?


Take a look at the TOS episode "The Savage Curtain" or a peek at http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Surak, the "Image of Surak" part.

Beat me to it.
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Re: "Divergent Paths" Discussion

Postby panyasan » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:51 pm

Have been thinking about chapter 60 a lot. First I was a bit torn, but I came to like this chapter and the way the relationship between TnT is developing a lot. As for chapter 61: Soval is painted as a life like, sympathic Vulcan. You're seeing things through his eyes. I like him. Don't think there is much chance on a Soval/Erika-ship - it would be a very akward place to start from. And I really want to know what Erika's side of the story is - what went through her head etc.
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