Trip's Mistakes

[Alelou]

Yeah, I know, but that collection is 50 horrible scifi movies in ONE collection for $11.49. It's Trip Paradise.

[justTripn]

OK, Trip's mistakes and the cogenitor.

I think that Trip's "mistakes" in this episode are completely understandable. I feel in love with him for these mistakes. Also I think the episode is less about "mistakes" than no-win situations.

I remember a really interesting moral dilemma where an American anthropologist was living with one of these "lost Tribes" who have never met outsiders. I don't remember the particulars, but it was a tribe that didn't even typically wear clothes. Well, the tribe members came and offered him an underage girl as a wife. He said, "I can't accept this 'gift'" Well the next thing this girl is being taunted and threated with rape. It turns out that a girl who is rejected as a wife is considered "fair game" for this type of mistreatment. So he says, I change my mind, I'll keep her. He does this just so he can protect her. But she grows a little older and he is fond of her and she seems to be genuinely bonded to him and HE MARRIES HER for real!

So an anthropologists who is offered an underage girl for a wife, and he accepts because it seems the lesser of two evils. Neither choice leaves us feeling very comforatable. It is the nature of the dillema.

So if Trip intervenes, he does the wrong thing. If he doesn't intervene, he's done the wrong thing. He hasn't objected to an injustice.

It's like slavery in the 1700s or 1800s. Or horrible widespread poverty today. If you are an abolitionist you may make an effort to help escaped slaves. But the abolitionists generally have to play by the rules. Work within the system. They don't want to encourage slaves to run away or rise up against their slaveowners if the slaves themselves most likely will fail, be beaten, or killed.

Similarly, I think it is wrong, how they are treating the cogenitor. It is like slavery. But one should pick the battles one can win. Since Trip can't win this one, in retrospect, it proves to be the wrong decision to intervene.

I also think the ending is a little contrived. Trip wouldn't have anticipated that outcome because I think it is an unlikely outcome. But I can imagine an outcome where the cogenitor's mind has been poisoned by ideas of freedom so now the cogenitor is even more tightly restricted by the captors.

And in the movie, The King and I, Anna tried to intervene as one of the Kings many wives is beaten for "cheating" on the king with this new wife's former lover. He orders the woman to be beheaded and she is. Then the king tells Anna that she forced this outcome. He was going to let the woman off with a beating and then pardon her from the execution. He was sympathetic to her plight, but he couldn't appear to cave because of Anna's very public intercession.

It's a no win situation.

[panyasan]

I agree with you, Jt. Trip did try to help him/her and that he stumbled in a no win situation without realizing it. Nice analogy with slavery. It may be interesting to note there are several forms of slavery. Slaves 250 years ago had fewer rights then for instead slaves in the Roman empire. Those slaves were seen as part of the household, still slaves, but they could be adopted as sons by their owner and also inherite the places. Still you could say slavery is wrong, but it's good to have the full picture as the status of something, before you make an jugdement.

[Aquarius]

Arguably, Trip's picks for Movie Night were often a mistake. Something tells me he would have just loved this collection of crappy scifi movies on Amazon currently on sale for $12 http://www.amazon.com/SciFi-Classics-Mo ... _rhf_p_t_1

Titles Include:
The Incredible Petrified World starring John Carradine
Queen of the Amazons starring Patricia Morison
Moon of the Wolf starring David Janssen
She Gods of Shark Reef starring Bill Cord
The Amazing Transparent Man starring Maguerite Chapman
The Atomic Brain starring Bradford Dillman
Horrors of Spider Island starring Harald Maresch
The Wasp Woman starring Susan Cabot
Voyage to the Prehistoric Planet starring Basil Rathbone
Voyage to the Planet of Prehistoric Women starring Mamie Van Doren
King of Kong Island starring Brad Harris
Bride of the Gorilla starring Raymond Burr
Attack of the Monsters starring Christopher Murphy
Gamera the Invincible starring Brain Donlevy
Santa Claus Conquers the Martians starring Pia Zadora
Teenagers From Outer Space starring David Love
Crash of the Moons starring Richard Crane
Menace From Outer Space starring Richard Crane
Hercules Against the Moonmen starring Alan Steel
Hercules and the Captive Women starring Reg Park
Hercules and the Tyrants of Babylon starring Peter Lupus
Hercules Unchained starring Steve Reeves
Lost Jungle starring Clyde Beatty
Mesa of Lost Women starring Jackie Coogan
Assignment: Outer Space starring Rick Van Nutter
Laser Mission starring Brandon Lee
Killers From Space starring Peter Graves
Phantom From Space starring Ted Cooper
White Pongo starring Richard Fraser
The Snow Creature starring Paul Langton
Son of Hercules: The Land of Darkness starring Dan Vadis
Devil of the Desert vs. Son of Hercules starring Kirk Morris
First Spaceship on Venus starring Yoko Tani
Zontar, The Thing From Venus starring John Agar
The Astral Factor starring Robert Foxworth
The Galaxy Invader starring Richard Dyszel
Battle of the Worlds starring Claude Rains
Unknown World starring Bruce Kellogg
Blood Tide starring James E

The reviews are kinda funny.

Enterprise box sets are still on sale for $149, which is $100 off retail. I don't know why these things are so expensive.

And what's wrong with THOSE??? Proof that Trip is the perfect man. I HAVE like half of these myself!

Bet I could've watched Attack of the Killer Tomatoes with Trip, too.

[Asso]

...I remember a really interesting moral dilemma where an American anthropologist was living with one of these "lost Tribes" who have never met outsiders. I don't remember the particulars, but it was a tribe that didn't even typically wear clothes. Well, the tribe members came and offered him an underage girl as a wife. He said, "I can't accept this 'gift'" Well the next thing this girl is being taunted and threated with rape. It turns out that a girl who is rejected as a wife is considered "fair game" for this type of mistreatment. So he says, I change my mind, I'll keep her. He does this just so he can protect her. But she grows a little older and he is fond of her and she seems to be genuinely bonded to him and HE MARRIES HER for real!

Abysmally romantic! "SIGH"

[Alelou]

JT, I could see your point about Trip's no-win scenario better if he hadn't lied and snuck around in the process, before he even knew exactly what he was dealing with. Simply being caught doing that could have been enough to ruin that first contact. It was unprofessional. More than that, it struck me as completely uncharacteristic of him: this is a stand-up guy who even told T'Pol about that letter he'd accidentally read. I could have bought that plot a great deal more if Trip hadn't behaved like a sneak in the process. Also, the abolitionists knew exactly what they were up against and had set up a system to cope with it, and they knew it was a personal risk. Trip didn't know exactly what he was up against and didn't seem to account his behavior as a possible risk to anybody, despite warnings from Phlox and T'Pol. I just don't see him as that unintelligent.

I do love the anthropologist's story, though.

[justTripn]

Well, it may have been unprofessional, but I don't think it was uncharacteristic. I remember watching the commentary on the first episode. The one with the klingons. Trip and Plox? maybe go to Rigel 4 (or some number) and it is this crossroads for all kinds of species and Trip sees two things that make him uncomfortable: there is some shaddowy rough sex going on behind a door (you see some silouettes), Trip hesitates as he considers if something is wrong and if he should do something, then the person with him hurries him along; then Trip yells at a woman who keeps pulling this facemask away from her choking child. Someone tells Trip that he doesn't understand, that the mother is "weaning" the child from one mix of atmospheres to another and this is normal for the species. The writers, who may have been Berman and Bragga, explain that they were setting up his character as someone likely to niavely intervene in a situation he doesn't fully understand.

[Alelou]

Yup, and that's why I might have bought it in season one, but not in season two. I just don't think it fits with the same guy who advises Archer to stay out of it in "Desert Crossing." Trip did a lot of learning in season one. Cogenitor just came too late for him. I would have preferred to see Travis or somebody else who hasn't had a lot of character growth up to that point be the person screwing up in that one. Or they needed to tone down the amount of sneaking around required -- if the aliens were so unconcerned/oblivious about the Cogenitor that they didn't mind it hanging out with Trip, I would feel a lot better about the story. (I'd still think Archer's reaction at the end made him look like either a hypocrite or a fool who's totally out of touch with his own mistakes, and to me that's not Archer.)

[Silverbullet]

I am going to watch this episode again. Obviously I got an entirely diferent slant ot it than others.

My moral compass may be skewed. Of course, I am going by teaching given me decades ago when thngs were looked at a bit differently than they are today.

My leanings are that Trip discovered the intelligence of the cogniator which was quite high. He saw an individual who could be an asset to his species. He saw a being who wanted to be allowed into his species society and was denied for no good reason other than indifference on the part of the other sexes. Trip saw a person, a being, and one who needed help.

Still don't believe trip sneaked around. he was open about inviting the coginator to his quarters. the Cogniator traveled back and forth between the ships openly.

Actauly I would rather as an ending that Charles returned to his kind and told them of a world out there that could be thiers if they learned. Charles could have been a leader like others of minorities who were pioneers to their kind.

Of course, I have done the kind of thng that Trip did, got burned for it but would do it agian.