Rajin & Similitude

[WarpGirl]

Archer is a Jackass there is no way around it. If the Andorians had not been Vulcan's enemies Archer would have been more cautious in giving them anything. But as it is Archer is a prejudice JERK who shouldn't be a Captain. Unfortunately that's just the way Enterprise rolls. I can't stand it actually.

[Aikiweezie]

Do not you think Vulcans have a special place in Human heart?
And, excuse me, but I think they are barbaric. And cruel too.
Never I found them really advanced. Only formal.
But, obviously, that's my personal impression.
Because of this (inter alia) I love T'Pol, and because of this I love Linda's Vulcans.

I've never read anything stating that Gene Rodenerry intended it to be so, but I find Vulcan culture to have a lot in common with Japanese culture. The Vulcan language is written very much like Jpanese hirigana and kanji, there is a very strict formality and hierarchy among Vulcans as there is among the Japanese, there is an austerity to Vulcan architecture that is quite Japanese in appearance, the style of Vulcan clothing resembles kimono, meditation is practiced for the purpose of centering and trancendence, (Surak is very much a Buddha-like figure, the belief system is not religious per se, but more of a philosophy), and last but not least both societies are derived from an ancient warrior culture that can, at times, very very, very violent.

If history is to teach us anything no matter how "advanced" any of us think we are, there is a thin veneer of control that is keeping us civilised. Look at what happens when society breaks down, or cults of personality take over (Hitler), etc. WWII was ONLY 60 years ago. The Khmer Rouge was in power only 40 years and and there is currently genocide in Darfur. Vulcans aren't that much different than we are.

I study a Samurai derived martial art, so a lot of this stuff is familiar to me - that's probably why I'm making the connection with the Japanese.

And I like T'Pol, too. She is a very unusual Vulcan and should be juged as an individual.

[WarpGirl]

Vulcans are all individuals. Sometimes they do the right thing, sometimes not. Like ALL individuals of any spieces. T'Pol is indeed unsusual individual but that doesn't make her actions right. But that's another thread...

[Asso]

...Vulcans aren't that much different than we are...

So, I'm not alone, in this idea.

[Silverbullet]

If I recall right in the Andoriian incident Shran was called a "rouge" commander who was operating on his own hook. If that is true then the andorian didn't want war but for sure Shran could have easily dragged them into a very hot shooting war.

As I have said one thing about t his episode is that it never gave the vulcans reactions to the incident or the destruction of their Monestary. I still contend that they would have to retaliate quickly and harshly by destroying a Andorian Listening post withiin a treasured building. As I have said they would look wek if they did not. Who would they look weak to? the Naucasians (sp), the Orion Syndicate and the Klingons. those groups would smell blood and start hijacking vulcan cargo ships raiding vulcan colonies to take captives to be sold into slavery and pirating vulcan commerce. Vulcan would b foced to divide its attention bertween the andorians and the others wich wooujld mean a division of thier forces. the andorians then might launch an attack to take advantage of the situation.

The Vulcans would have to retaliate forcefully.

[Aquarius]

Minor quibble, but I don't think T'Pol told everyone Trip was pregnant. I think he got paranoid and decided she must have.

She didn't say a word. It was all Trip's hormone-fueled paranoia and moodiness.

As for the jealousy thing, hell yeah! That was MORE than a dress-down lecture from a superior officer. Way more.

[WarpGirl]

I skipped Unexpected but I find it a little unbelievable that T'Pol was actually jealous. I know she's attracted to him, but it seems to me that she would be disappointed by Trip's actions, because to her it was extremely promiscuous. He didn't know Ah'len more than a week. And while he didn't know he was engaging in reproduction, he was being very familiar with a stranger. Vulcan culture considers this a taboo, so she probably was like "So much potential wated." I'm pretty sure she wasn't thinking rival. She had no problem with Risa "professionals."

[Aquarius]

I dunno. It sure looked like more than disappointment to me. T'Pol was pretty mad. Kind of reactionary.

Don't get me wrong: I don't consider myself in the "love at first sight" camp in this pairing. But there were sparks...sometimes chemistry...sometimes alchemy.

[WarpGirl]

I said she's attracted to him and that adds to disappointment. But she doesn't want him like that yet it hasn't even entered the realm of possibility.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

It was her unconscious that told her "Hey, if any alien female is going to have a baby with him, it should be me!"

[WarpGirl]

Sure but she wasn't AWARE of it at the time.

[Aquarius]

I said she's attracted to him and that adds to disappointment. But she doesn't want him like that yet it hasn't even entered the realm of possibility.

Well, my idea is that they more or less don't know WHAT it is, you know? How to explain it...

When I first met my s.o., I thought he was rude, annoying, and kind of a jerk...we used to get into conversations and frustrate the hell out of each other. (Sound familiar?) And though we had friends in common, we'd end up at the same party and end up being the only ones talking to each other...even though we were pissing each other off.

Was it love? I would've said no then, and I'd even be reluctant to say so now. Did I think I was attracted to him? Not at the time. Denial? No, because there'd have to be something there to deny. Any way, over the course of a couple of years, we became friends, and over the course of a few more years, we became more.

So what I think I'm saying here, is that what T'Pol and Trip had was that state that defies definition and quantification...but if I had to put a label on it, the only one I could come up with is "inevitable."

[WarpGirl]

But if your s.o. got knocked up by a "one-night-stand" during that time would you be jealous wishing it was you? No probably not, but you would be saying YOU IRRITATING FACINATING MORON!!!!

[Aquarius]

Well to be honest, I never entertained the notion of him getting pregnant.

-BUT-

I imagine my reaction to something like that would be to laugh and point at him for like half an hour. Then say a few choice words about how dumb he is. Then laugh and point for maybe another hour or so. Until I passed out.

Why? Why put all that energy into mocking him? Because obviously on some level I like him or care about him or something, because for whatever reason, it matters to me. Still don't know how I'd define what it is I feel for him, but in the moment it matters even if I don't know why.

Point being: if I didn't give a crap about him, I might leave it at "Dude, it sucks to be you" and move on, forget about it.

[WarpGirl]

Which is just what T'Pol did, but it didn't mean she wanted him to be into her at this time. OK she didn't laugh but it was the Vulcan equivilant of disapproval and mocking.