Article on Fan Fiction from Time Magazine

[putaro]

A rather nice article.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2081784,00.html

[justTripn]

Hi putaro. Thank you. That is the best article on fanfiction I have ever seen. I think I'll post it on my facebook page. Embarassingly, the last article I discovered on fanfiction said that it was pornography, mostly written by women. *sigh* And apparently my Dad read the article and of course believes that over me. Anyway, the article you point out is the most accurate, comprehesive article I have seen on the subject and it does a nice job with the ethical issues. Interestingly, I read that book "March" which the article says used the absent father from "Little Women" as a character and takes him on a tour of Civil War battlefields. Hmmm . . . Didn't know that. I'll have to look again at that book, which was a great book!

[putaro]

I saw the porno article recently. "So that's what I'm doing," I said to myself. "Guess I'm supposed to write more sex scenes!"

[justTripn]

And you're supposed to be a women. Anyway, I was just thinking it over, and I write "sex scenes" (half of which are "fade to black" and not an actual sex scene) in about the same proportion as we saw on the actual show: if you count the Harbinger scene and the shower scene as sex scenes. Or about the same proportion of sex to other stuff as you see in regular movies. Or about the same proportion as happens in real life, for that matter. More broadly, the percentage of NC-17 stories at Triaxian Silk is certainly below 10 percent. I think we as a group write about the same percentage of sex scenes to other stuff as comes at us in the popular culture--in books, TV, and movies. Why is it OK for everyone to watch an R-rated movie, but if we write that same material, that is ethically dubious? I've decided not to worry about it.

[Transwarp]

Why is it OK for everyone to watch an R-rated movie, but if we write that same material, that is ethically dubious? I've decided not to worry about it.

Oh good, it's not just me! I certainly didn't recognize myself in that article...

[justTripn]

But you recognize yourself in the article putaro posted, right?

[Transwarp]

But you recognize yourself in the article putaro posted, right?

The Time article (that putaro posted) is the one I was talking about; and no, I don't see myself at all in it. Reading that article, I'd have to suppose that a majority of fan fiction is explicit sex or slash. Perhaps it is--I don't really know, since I've never really sampled anything beyond 'Enterprise' on fanfiction.net, and even in that small corner there's a surprising (to me) percentage of slash. Which is mind-boggling, given there is no canonical support for such pairings on the show; I suspect you could take such slash stories, do a search-and-replace of the names, and post them in a different fandom with little loss of fidelity.

[Asso]

But you recognize yourself in the article putaro posted, right?

The Time article (that putaro posted) is the one I was talking about; and no, I don't see myself at all in it. Reading that article, I'd have to suppose that a majority of fan fiction is explicit sex or slash. Perhaps it is--I don't really know, since I've never really sampled anything beyond 'Enterprise' on fanfiction.net, and even in that small corner there's a surprising (to me) percentage of slash. Which is mind-boggling, given there is no canonical support for such pairings on the show; I suspect you could take such slash stories, do a search-and-replace of the names, and post them in a different fandom with little loss of fidelity.

Well said.
And I'm glad it was you the one who said it, Transwarp.
Because I would have been much harsher.

[justTripn]

Well, I think the Time article says that its not all porn, but some of it is, and explains the motivation for doing fanfic in general.

[Cogito]

even in that small corner there's a surprising (to me) percentage of slash.

My fanfic interests don't extend beyond Enterprise. Like you, I'm baffled by what seems a disproportionate amount of slash fiction. I could understand it if the stories were written by gay men, but I get the impression that most of them are written by women. I can't fathom why they would be interested in that. Beyond the fact that I find them repugnant, I can't help thinking what a waste of talent and effort they represent. I know it's selfish of me, and that writers are always free to write about whatever they like, but there are so few Ent stories that it seems a real shame to have good writers spending time on that sort of distasteful character assassination.

[putaro]

STOP!

Put down the gasoline and the matches and step back!

If you have read the article and want to comment on it, this is the place. If you want to complain about what other people are writing, this is NOT the place.

Thank you!

[Distracted]

I thought it was a very well-balanced article, and very accurate of most fandoms in my experience. I hate to break it to you guys, but our little corner of the fanfic world is different from most others by editorial choice. You can thank the boss man and his cohorts for that. We've actually had members choose to leave us over this site's conservative editorial policies. So if you like the types of fics we have here and prefer not to read other types that we don't post here, thank your administrators.

[Transwarp]

I thought it was a very well-balanced article, and very accurate of most fandoms

No dispute there. I just said I didn't see MYSELF in the article. Which I suppose only means I am not a typical fanfic writer.

So if you like the types of fics we have here and prefer not to read other types that we don't post here, thank your administrators.

Thank you, administrators!

[putaro]

In the article, one person compared writing fan fiction to "playing other people's songs." I don't think that's quite right, but it shows an interesting contrast between writing and music.

My understanding of music copyright is that anyone can perform a song - they do need to pay a royalty back to the writer, but you don't have to ask for permission. The royalty is also fixed, so there is no negotiation. Artists do maintain control over actual recordings of a performance - so the Beatles could say that their recording couldn't be used for commercials; however, someone else could do a cover of a Beatles song and that could be used in a commercial.

The copyrights on writing are a little different and a little unclear. You definitely can't copy somebody's writing. However, the concept of a copyright on the characters, world, etc. appears to be a grey area. Also, the idea of using someone else's work as the springboard for your own is frowned on, hence some of the fan fiction stigma.

So, should writing be treated more like music? Should the law be changed so that you would be able to use someone else's work as a launchpad if you pay royalties?

I found an old thread here about abandoned stories and the concept of picking up and continuing on with someone else's work. Looks like people got rather vehement that the work belongs to the original author which I find kind of interesting given that we're doing fan fiction which picks up and mutates someone else's work.

Thoughts?

[Transwarp]

however, someone else could do a cover of a Beatles song and that could be used in a commercial.

I did not know that. I am *very* surprised.

So, should writing be treated more like music? Should the law be changed so that you would be able to use someone else's work as a launchpad if you pay royalties?

No. Actually I think music should be treated more like writing. It just seems wrong to me that someone else can perform my song (if i HAD a song, which I don't) and then use it however he wants because he's not using MY performance of it. I have a problem with that.

But I also have a problem with eternal copyrights. At some point copyrighted works (for example, mickey mouse and the three stooges) should enter into the public domain. The precise time when that happens is a matter for public debate, but it's a debate that doesn't seem to be happening. In the case of the two examples I mention, I believe that time *should* have already passed. That mickey mouse is still copyrighted is (I believe) an abuse of the original spirit and intent of our intellectual property laws.

I found an old thread here about abandoned stories and the concept of picking up and continuing on with someone else's work. Looks like people got rather vehement that the work belongs to the original author which I find kind of interesting given that we're doing fan fiction which picks up and mutates someone else's work.

Legally speaking, I don't see anything that would prevent anyone from taking a piece of unfinished fanfic and running with it. Hell, legally I don't think there's a damn thing I could do to stop someone from taking a story I'm still WORKING on and running off with it. I wouldn't like it, and I'd be sore as hell, but I'm glad it's not prohibited by law, because that same law could then be wielded by Paramount (or whoever owns ST now) against ME. I would never dream of finishing someone else's story unless I had their permission, but that is a matter of courtesy, not of law.

Because we receive no gain from what we do, I think it should be permitted under the concept of 'fair use.' The original authors are not harmed, and are very likely helped. (Ask the Grateful Dead if they have been harmed or helped by the practice among their fans of free and open sharing of concert recordings.)
If we make any money from it, I believe the owners of the original works should receive their just due. Other than that, they have no business regulating what we write.