See, reasoning WAS evolved for the Internet

[putaro]

Why did we evolve reasoning? To think better? No! It's to win arguments!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/arts/ ... wanted=all

Now, how does this apply to Vulcans?

[Cogito]

Absolutely right. The pen is mightier than the sword, and these days the ability to beat somebody in an argument is probably more important to our Neanderthal minds than the ability to beat them in a fight.

[Silverbullet]

Problem is, that they must realize they have been defeated. Many people cannot accept that and struggle on. (guilty) It isn't winnig so much as not losing. There is a difference.

Best to just avoid getting in to useless arguments that take you nowhere and can leave bitternees in its wake.

SB

[justTripn]

VERY interesting putaro. This rings true for me. The evolutionary advantage is in convincing people you are right (and believing you are right), not in having the best reasoning per se.

In a related story, there is evidence that being honest with oneself is not the best way to be. I heard about this experiment on the radio: some researchers got to thinking up embarassing questions that they could ask people that would cause them to lie. They came up with a string of questions so embarassing that, even though the answer is probably "yes", few would dare answer yes to a researcher. Many of the questions I can't repeat here, but . . . two examples: "Have you ever worried that you were sexually inadequate?" "Have you ever enjoyed a bowel movement?" lol . . . Well those who shouted "NO!" the fastest scored higher on this test, lol. Those who answered "Yes" or hesitated before saying "NO" scored lower. Then they decided to give the test to successful athletes. Unsurprisingly the most successful athletes were the ones who shouted NO! the fastest to all the embarassing questions. Successful atheletes lie to themselves regularly along the lines of "I am better than everyone else. I am destined do win this. Failure is not an option." And they are happier and more successful as a result. If I remember those scoring high on the test were also happier people.

[Cogito]

Interesting results. It makes me wonder how many of our great achievements were accomplished because the person involved was too proud or stubborn to admit they were wrong, although a completely honest assessment would have concluded that they were wrong and wasting their time?

And as a rather tortuous link to trek, wouldn't that result in an excruciatingly slow rate of development, if people were entirely honest and logical and didn't waste time on problems that seemed intractable?

[Silverbullet]

To those two questions: No I have never worried about my sexual adequacy. never had any rocks thrown at me. Yes, I have enjoyed a bowel movement. Of course I keep a library by the throne so I can sit a read. That is enjyable and I include it in the BM.

SB

[justTripn]

Silverbullet, thank you for sharing.

Cogito, that is a great point, and very Trek related, especially with regard to areospace developments, and to some extent, astronomy. It seems to me that most people (the general public and the experts) are wildly optimistic about the prospects for interplanetary and even interstellar space travel, much more than is warrented by facts and experience, and that the Star Trek mythology is behind much of this reflexive optimism. Just like chemistry was motivated by the search for a way to turn lead into gold, astronomy has been motivated by curiosity and (over?)optimism about the chances of finding life beyond this planet.

Researchers have found that children wildly overestimate their abilities (how high can you jump, how far can you throw the ball) and are not discouraged when they achieve less than they have predicted--and this optimism serves them well.

[enterprikayak]

yeah, kids are pretty much perfect outta the shell. positive, wondrous, happy etc etc etc.

then they grow up.

us "adults" are mostly a group of tortured and mentally-maimed children who no longer know how to rip all their clothes off and tear down a beach.

we *unlearn* how to be happy as we grow.

so: to all! be like the children! believe !!!!


*flings keyboard away and runs to beach*

[Cogito]

Runs back, picks up keyboard, checks weather report, starts that backup job (might as well kill two birds with one stone, eh?), carefully puts keyboard away, runs off to beach, mental note pick up groceries on the way home. Yeah, you've still got it.

[justTripn]

Ha! ha! Dark Rain/mjimeyg, when are you going to make us a "like" button?