Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:54 am

When we get it in the mail from Netflix I'm gonna watch it with the parents. My dad will probably buy it for me later. He's a sweetie.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:23 am

Sorry for the double... Okay so I couldn't wait to see it on my parents TV. Thank you HBO! Even if it wasn't 3D and on a crappy TV it was wonderful! Now I have to give my impressions... Warning post will more than likely be extremely long:

First let me state I am a movie snob. Seriously I am severely prejudicial in my opinions that even the very best movied made after 1969 cannot be considered a true work of film art. I have even worse opinions of CGI as an art form. So my love of sci-fi frequently battles my snobbery. Thus far snobbery always won. Then came AVATAR...

This movie is a piece of film art that will always be unique unto itself. And is the only movie made after 1969 in my all time greatest list. Again I say, how can the guy responsible for Titanic be the brains of this operation. It's mind boggling. And wonderous! GO JAMES CAMERON! :happyjump: Almost absolutely nothing in this movie is 100% real, and I don't care! The actors inhabited their characters, and that world as if it was completely real. The big blue people were just that, people! Even the 100s of "extras" and the children. I did not think it was possible to do that with a computer. Frankly it terrifies the heck out of me. What's next no human component at all? Paging SkyNET! Well look who thought all this stuff up! :lol:

Okay I admit the story is a tried and true trope. But hey, isn't that kind of the point? I mean, think about it; throughout history this is what humanity has done to itself, our earth, what those who call themselves "superior" do to those they consider "inferior." And really has anything changed at all? Look at Kosovo, look at Rawanda, look at Darfur and most of Africa. The story is still pertinent. And I did not equate it with so called "white guilt" at all. Jake Sully could have been Black, Asian, Hispanic, anything at all. All races in human history have lorded themselves over a people they considered "barbaric." All of them. So it's not "white guilt," it's human guilt. I'm willing to bet that was part of Cameron's point. I wish I could have coffee with him...

As to the assertion that the film is blatently anti-military... I'm breaking out my Obi-Wan Kenobie, from a certain point of view yes it seems that way. I won't even try to guess what Cameron's POV is, but considering his other films I think it's a leap to say he hates soldiers. When Jake arrives on Pandora he contrasts the "military" personel there with their earth bound counterparts. And the comparison is terribly unflatering. Despite his contention of "there's no such thing as an ex-Marine", he clearly marks the difference between the men fighting for freedom and the men fighting for money and working for "the company". These men are not true soldiers, these men are mercenaries. They might have the attitude of Marines, but no honor code. Nothing that makes them fight for a cause. So in my certain point of view the film isn't anti military at all.

Case in point Grace is a bit hostile to Jake in the beginning, but she always calls him "Marine" and it was not in a derogitory manner. It was respectful, and became a mark of great affection. She never treated any of the other mercinaries, (I refuse to call them military) like that.

Now on to the "one-dimensional villians" okay I admit it they were. But you know what I think it made a lot of sense in story development. Quaritch is extremely 1D. But I have to break out Alfred in The Dark Knight... Some men just want to watch the world burn. It's true, some men just find power in destruction. We don't like to admit it. But there are evil people out there who take pleasure in destruction and causing pain. And not all of them have a bonaified mental disease. Quaritch is a guy that likes destruction. He loves "burning." Na'vi, humans, anything at all. It's what gives him a feeling of power. It's his drug, along with all the seroids he must be pumping himself with.

As for "the company" guy (can't find his name) he's not "evil" he's a moron. Wish I could spell the Na'vi word... He's exceptional at doing what all us humans do, rationalizing. But even with his blue monkey comments he's not Quaritch, he has no true desire to destroy the Na'vi. He's just not going to let them get in the way of his goals. So he rationalizes until he can convince himself that turning Quaritch loose is his only viable option. Again, there are people who do this all the time. Go to the congo and you'll see companies funding warlords for the mineral used to make micro-chips. Not to mention blood diamonds, drugs, sex-slaves, the list goes on. It's a part of the human existence. 1D villian? Yep! Accurate? I'd say very close.

Now for the real fun part... LOVE STORY! :loveeyes: Seriously, this guy wrote Titanic? Was his muse drunk at the time? It's very Pocahontas! But done very, very, well. In fact, never seen it done better. Where to begin? Neytiri ROCKS! If there ever was an epitomy of what I'd consider my feminist ideal, it's Neytiri! In fact, I'd love to be her when I grow up. That girl is equal to anyone male or female, she has a role, she embraces that role, she thrives in it. She isn't subservient to anyone, not her parents, not her betrothed. But she respects their roles. But even with that respect she will make herself heard, disagree, and make objections when she believes something is right or wrong. This is not a woman to take anybody's crap. Even her own. And when she realizes that the right thing to do is to be with ma Jhake, she doesn't hesitate, she doesn't hide, she gets right up in front of her entire clan and says We were mated in the sight of Eywa it is done! Okay yeah she tells Jake to get lost later, but before that she goes at her former betrothed with a knife for trying to kill his AVATAR. Now that's moxie!

Jake is pretty awesome himself. He doesn't try to seduce Neytiri to complete his "task" or even just for kicks. And that's a mark of a real man. Here is this beautiful woman, (let's face it he probably didn't have a ton of options on earth if he was even capable of sexual activity) and it's been at absolute minimum of 6 years since he's had any prolonged contact with women. He's got a new body that he's in complete control over, and they just click. Yet he's respectful to her, doesn't pry about Tsu'Tey, doesn't disparage her culture for pairing her off with him, just becomes her best friend. It's only until she brings up the topic of him choosing a woman, and not-so-subtly shows her chargrin at the prospect, that he tells her he would choose her. And then he said but this woman must also choose me! This is the type of man most women dream about and secretly believe cannot exist outside of fiction. THANK GOD FOR FICTION!

I love that these two people are truly partners. He becomes Taruk Makto but it's Neytiri he brings to call the Na'Vi clans. It's Neytiri that cries his battle call. He sends her out into the frey knowing she is a fierce and formidable warrior in her own right. He knows In many ways superior to him because Pandora is her native land, and she's been connected to it since birth. Yes he has a moment where he freaks out and says that's an order, but really extenuating cirmcumstances must be made. 1. He's in full on Marine mode. 2. At that moment in time they're losing. 3. Her Ikan is dead. 4. She's his wife, instinct demands he protect her. We'll forgive him for speaking in the heat of the moment. Besides, when she tells him Eywa has heard you he drops it and she fights on.

Come to think of it, it seems Na'vi marriages are true partnerships. Neytiri's parents are a co-unit, Eytukan leads the clan, but Mo'at is controls the spiritual relationship between the clan and Eywa, and the right balance is essential. That's why Neytiri and Tsu'Tey were paired to begin with.

Which of course makes Neytiri even more awesome for realizing that even if it messed with the natural order of things, possibly the balance of Eywa and the clan itself she was supposed to be Jake's wife. Besides Eywa blessed them. ;-)

But the absolute best part of the romance was, Jake's body had absolutely nothing to do with it. In his human state or his AVATAR state to Neytiri he was JhakeSulee, ma Jhake, Taruk Makto. Paralized or not, Sky Person or not, he was her mate. And Jake felt the same. You could see it when he touched her face as a human and whispered I see you. And how about the most awesome way of saying I love you ever! Better than as you wish, and frankly I wasn't sure that was possible.

Best thing about Jake... He didn't become a completely different person. "Going Native" didn't change who he was, it merely showed him how to live in a new way. He was still a Marine, fighting for freedom. He was still a good friend to his human friends. He didn't reject his humanity at all. He rejected his body, there is a huge difference!

Which leads me to the personal part of my rambling. I won't say I'm the only person in this community confined (mostly) to a wheel chair. I just don't know of anyone else here who is. So for now I am the lone voice. And I've got a thing or two to say about the portrayal, the leg bribe, and the "giving up your body" thing...

First protrayal... BRAVO James Cameron and Sam Worthington! I'm not sure anybody realizes how few authentic depictions of people with disabilities there actually are in film and TV. Especially, when the actor is not in any way disabled themselves. It's impossible for a completely healthy person to do a "perfect" portrayal. But both actor and director made it as perfect as could possibly be.

Let me just take a minute to discuss the wheelchair they used. That chair is a dream come true for anyone who must be stuck in one and has the ability to use a manual chair. I myself ache for a chair like it. The tight stretch of fabric at the lower back gives support where a good many of us need it the most, without restricting movement in pushing, or adding uncessessary weight. It was easily the lightest chair I've ever seen. Not sure if it was titanium or not but, any chair that can collapse and snap back with one hand is the ultimate dream of freedom for someone like me. I'd never have to stay home because the chair wouldn't travel well in the car of a friend. Something I could have used tonight. For the story and the character, it's a perfect chair. It may seem unimportant, but giving Jake the "wrong chair" would have killed any chance of me taking the disability seriously. Unless they qualified it by saying the crappy chair was due to crappy VA benifits.

Now as for Sam Worthington's preformance, he lived in that chair for a while. You can't fake that. His legs might have been a computer trick, but not the way he used the chair. You can't fool someone like me. Not even my own mother can handle a wheel chair like that. The set's in the base and in the satalite station in the mountains were tricky for inexperienced chair users. I myself would have had an extremely difficult time with it. But Mr. Worthington had the right balance in the chair to push it perfectly. He held his legs in the appropiate position for a parapalegic even if it was CGI later. He had the right way of steering around tight spaces, and knew how to control his speed for both the camera and what he was doing. It seriously brought tears to my eyes.

Now as for the "leg bribe" Someone (I really don't remember who) said that Jake wanting his legs back was unPC. Well maybe to the outside world who doesn't live in a wheel chair would conclude that. It certainly is prevelent in mainstream media. But really, it's a gross oversimplification. I don't claim to speak for every person confined to a chair, I certainly can't claim to speak for people who lost their legs due to some tragedy. But I can say this, I don't know a single person who wouldn't hope for or consider something that might take them out of a chair. Maybe they might consider the cost too high in the end, but nobody says "okay I don't care if I never get out, I'll be perfectly happy with my body." And if there ever is someone who says that, they are delusional, or a liar. And yes I can state that as a fact.

Jake accepting Quaritch's offer was not an aspect of dubious moral character. It was a natural reaction. The fact that earth's healthcare system wouldn't take care of it even for a War Vet was monsterous. (And a great commentary on the realities for a lot of us too) He knew nothing of the Na'vi, he'd never gone through training like his twin. All he knew was the information given to him by the people he worked for. And when he realized it was all wrong, he gave up the idea of getting his legs back. And let me tell you, dying would have been an easier sacrifice to make.

Now about giving up his body, like I said before, this wasn't Jake giving up his humanity. It wasn't even giving it up for Neytiri which I was THRILLED about. It came down to the fact that he had an oppertunity, to live the life he wanted in a body that worked. He could have been accepted into the Na'vi in his human form, but he couldn't have lived a free life like that. We don't know if the Na'vi could have healed Jake's human body. I wish they had addressed it, but I'm guessing not. The bottom line is he had a shot of living a "normal" life again and he took it. I would have done the same thing in a heart beat. I don't even know what a normal life is! But I do know that being disabled is not who I am. And it wasn't who Jake was either, good for him for doing it.

What didn't I like? Trudy dying! SHE ROCKED! I would have loved more Norm (I hate Fischer on Bones, but adore Norm), more Grace, more Max. Must get collectors addition! :twisted:

End of insane obsessive post! ;-)
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby justTripn » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:47 pm

Wow! And you didn't even see the 3-D. I was wondering what I would have thought of this movie without the 3-D. I have only one disagreement with you in your review: Titanic was also one of the greatest movies of all time. Avatar didn't grab me quite as much, but it could have to do with my age.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:26 pm

Well the 3D Probably wouldn't have been a good thing for me. The CP makes stuff like that iffy for me. Migraines even spazams can be triggered if the signles to my head are too wonky from imagery and stuff like that. So the 3D might have ruined the whole experience. As for Titanic, well I was 13, but I've seen bits and pieces over the years and I find it hugely overrated. I was terrified AVATAR would be more of the same. Besides, Jake and Neytiri have a happily ever after. How is that not far superior! ;-)

I could go on for hours about Jake, it's a kinship thing. But what really made a lot of his character for me was that in his human body he was as independent as he could possibly be. He didn't wallow in self pity. He hated his paralysis, which is completely normal, although shrinks try to change that. They do it to everyone confined in a chair. Very few even are capable of trying to "Get it" unless they're in a chair, and then they admit it's impossible not to hate it. But to tell the honest truth I don't think Jakes biggest demon was his body. His biggest demon was losing his twin. In any case, it would have been cool to show him deciding to transfer into his AVATAR. I'm curious to see how he might have come to the decision, and if the paralysis was his primary motivation. It might not have been. In his human body he couldn't have Tsaheylu, with Neytiri, his Ikan, or Eywa. In short, he can't lead a life of The People even if he can see. So maybe it was less about being paralyzed and more about living the life he chose.

I have to say I adore how they handled Jake and Tsu'Tey. Yeah Tsu'Tey was jealous, (rightfully so IMO) but Jake was really great about it. He didn't flaunt his closeness with Neytiri, he didn't taunt Tsu'Tey with it after she chose him. And he always treated Tsu'Tey with the respect he was due regarding his place in the clan. Sure there there was a little boasting when he passed his "lessons" on the ways of The People. But Jake left Neytiri out of it. Now that's class. And when Neytiri's father died, he submitted to Tsu'Tey as leader of the clan. Again classy. A question that comes up is, "how can a guy respect another guy so much after taking his girl?" The answer is pretty easy, Jake didn't take Neytiri from Tsu'Tey. Neytiri gave herself to him. It had absolutely nothing to do with Tsu'Tey as a man, or a warrior. And that totally made me ecstatic!
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby justTripn » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:21 pm

Wow, I'm so glad you loved Avatar. I confess, I was watching going, "Wow, objectively speaking this is like the greatest, most amazing movie ever. Why can't I get into it more?" So, I'm pretty sure the fault lies with me, not the movie. For one thing, I was watching it all by myself, which is suboptimal. But conversely, I am still charmed by Leonardo DiCaprio's Jack in Titanic. Just caught the middle of it a few days ago. It was on TV with commercials, and I was totally drawn in--yet one more time.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:24 pm

A friend of mine saw Titanic 14 times in the theater. I was just never a Leo fan. :hug: Now Sam Worthington oh YES PLEASE! :twisted:
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby Elessar » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:49 am

I saw Avatar 4 times in theaters, I think... once in IMAX 3D, once in digital "Real 3D", once in standard and.... well a few times on DVD actually, oh and once on blu-ray! :lol:

Yeah I know that movie backwards and forwards now! Ellie got me the collector's edition blu ray for christmas though so I'm going to watch that soon. There was supposedly 45 minutes of additional footage filmed but only 16 of that's included in the "super extended collector's edition re-release", I wish they'd included all 45min!
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:58 pm

Well, I feel slightly less crazy for checking all 4 HBO channels for it constantly ;-) . Mom says the Netflix copy should be here later this week, and I've got the collector's addition waiting in my Amazon.com shopping cart. AND the video game! :oops: My mom was at Best Buy yesterday and said she saw a minute on one of the 3D TV's. She also said I can't see it it 3D, because my CP would be set off in a very bad way. :(
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby Elessar » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:38 pm

WarpGirl wrote:Well, I feel slightly less crazy for checking all 4 HBO channels for it constantly ;-) . Mom says the Netflix copy should be here later this week, and I've got the collector's addition waiting in my Amazon.com shopping cart. AND the video game! :oops: My mom was at Best Buy yesterday and said she saw a minute on one of the 3D TV's. She also said I can't see it it 3D, because my CP would be set off in a very bad way. :(


I'm wary of the 3D TV's because they're very new, and they're insanely expensive. I wouldn't pay for them. But a thing about your CP - I'd ask your doc, because I'm assuming you have a neurologist or something you see right? Ask them... maybe you can see it :) there are 2 or 3 different kinds of 3D cinematic technology out there - there's "Digital 3D" and "Real 3D" and IMO, Real 3D looks the best.

What's interesting is my step mother doesn't have CP or any brain issues but she has like hypertension and high blood pressure and when we saw it it was her first experience with a 3D film and we were way up close bc we got there late and she got a little sick, like she felt her heart fluttering very quickly and she got kind of antsy, but I'm not sure if one thing really had anything to do with the other, it's hard to say.

I tried googling it but found nothing :neutral:
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:14 pm

That's very kind of you Boss, I will talk to my neurologist in a couple of weeks anyway. And have seen 3D before, mainly on amusement park rides. The results were never good. If it wasn't severe muscle contractions it was bad migraines. <sigh> Oh well... I may try one day. But honestly I cannot believe 3D would make the story or characters more thrilling. I thought the visuals were insanely beautiful even on my crappy TV.

Later this week I'll see it on my parents insanely cool 55' LCD tv that thing is so awesome! :loveeyes:
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby Elessar » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:44 am

I was just reading about 2011's upcoming gadgets - and LG is expected to release a 72" 3D LED TV :drool:
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:33 pm

How much will that set you back? Well I'm in countdown mode, the Netflix should get to my parents soon. Then we gotta find a day we can all be together. Which is kinda hard because dad works hours a day 7 days a week. But I want this to be a family thing. That way when we go to get a new chair we all know what I want.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:06 pm

Just ordered special collectors addition, and the video game. Should be here in 2 days! :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump:
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:54 pm

It's here, it's HERE! Yey, maybe tonight I can go to my parents and watch it on their awesome TV! :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump:
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Avatar *Here there be spoilers*

Postby Cogito » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:46 pm

WarpGirl wrote:That way when we go to get a new chair we all know what I want.


(snigger)


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