The Whine thread.

[CX]

I'm going to sign up for a plan that's being offered for being a GRA, and my mom tells me that there's some kind of deal here for if insurance refuses to pay based on it being a pre-existing condition, so I'll have to go for that. It'll set me back close to $900 for the insurance, though, but fortunately I have enough to float it. I was hoping to use that to start paying down on my undergrad student loans, but then this had to go and happen.

[Distracted]

Yeah. Unexpected medical expenses can really throw a monkey wrench into the best laid financial planning. I'm glad you're able to get insurance, though. That's your best bet. Relying on the government to bail you out isn't such a good move these days.

[marchale]

CX,

You're certainly free to do whatever you want there (and if you can easily afford that insurance, I'm happy for you), but I would still call your county and see if your income is low enough to qualify you for Medical Assistance or Medicaid (and Food Stamps and/or Cash Assistance too) because back when I was a poor college student working part-time (many years ago) I needed to have surgery to remove a pilonital cyst from my tailbone - and even though I had an insurance plan through the University of Minnesota included (for free) as part of my tuition costs, my income was low enough to qualify for Medical Assistance, so the county was able to step in and pay for what part of the medical costs the University of Minnesota wouldn't cover under their insurance plan. (I don't remember offhand if you're allowed to have $2,000 or $3,000 in personal assets (including cash) or what the limit might be nowdays; but hon, the government doesn't expect you to be penniless, or to spend money that's sorely needed elsewhere trying to purchase insurance you might not be able to easily afford. And isn't it worth a phone call to at least see if you could qualify for help that possibly could save you alot of money?

[marchale]

Relying on the government to bail you out isn't such a good move these days.

Dis,

I agree with you in one respect, I think those of us who can afford to pay their own way should - but thank God the government is there to help those of us it considers "poor enough" to qualify for help. Being disabled now and trying to make ends meet on the whopping amount of $636 of Social Security Disability, $58 in SSI, and $111 in Minnesota Supplemental Aid I get each month, I frankly don't know how I could make it if Uncle Sam wasn't subsidizing the lion's share of my rent and paying for my diabetic and other medicine I need to live on. And they aren't being real extravagent there or anything. Hell, I only get $51 in Food Stamps each month and that's quite a joke trying to live on. But I'm damn grateful for any help I can get from the government - and I don't think there's anything wrong in asking for help if a person is having it rough enough financially to be able to qualify for help. Believe me, you have to be having it pretty damn rough financially before they even will help a person out. I know, for many years there when I was working, I worked at minimum wage jobs and was among the "working poor" you mentioned earlier who made just a few too many bucks than to qualify for help. I just think if CX could qualify for help then he or she should try to get it, thats all. Hell, thats what I paid taxes on for the many, many years that I was out there working and paying my own way without government help.

[Distracted]

Marchale, I have no problem at all subsidizing those who are truly disabled with my tax dollars. You probably don't want to hear my opinions about what government assistance programs are actually doing to America, though. I guess I've just seen too many people work the system to believe that it's fair for the government to take nearly half of my income in taxes to pay for "assistance programs" that enroll far too many people who are too lazy, "entitled", or trained in helplessness to take care of themselves.

The freeloaders and second or third generation "career welfare" recipients easily outnumber the truly disabled in every medical clinic I've ever worked for. Welfare is, in my opinion, a crutch that creates multiple generations of economically helpless individuals dependent on handouts to maintain a lifestyle which is unhealthy and which is producing the greatest obesity rates and illegitimate birth rates in the history of our country. Investing the same amount of money in our educational system that we do in supporting all of these illegitimate babies that welfare moms are deliberately conceiving out of wedlock in order to have another check coming in would actually teach the kids who've already been born the vital skills they will need to support themselves and get off of welfare, but no one wants to tell the moms that they've got to stop having babies or there's no money coming. It's not PC.

So no, I'm not in favor of an otherwise able-bodied young adult going on the dole with my tax dollars paying his way when he's perfectly capable of working. Yes, it might take a student longer to finish a degree that way. My dad supported a wife and two kids while getting his business degree in nine years instead of four. Was it hard? You bet. He did it because he made the choice to have a child (me) at a time when he was unable to support that child without going to work full time. I'm not certain if he regrets it or not, but he did what had to be done, and I am very grateful for it.

So I imagine that we will need to agree to disagree about government assistance programs.

[WarpGirl]

Dis believe it or not, I can totally understand where you're coming from. But for my life, I have to admit that although I think the people who abuse the programs should be punished, I think the cost of doing so is way too high for people like me. I get less than 800$ a month for SSI it pays 3 major bills, that's it. But it is something, and a I don't think I should be punished more simply because there are jerks in the world. So it makes me furious that people think it isn't fair to subsidize "free loaders" when hurting them, really only hurts the good people more.

I'm sorry I just get so angry. Because it's really people like me who get screwed, when these programs get cut. The bad people just find new ways to do their deeds.

[Distracted]

That's why I think that there should be a clear distinction between the medically disabled and the able-bodied who just think they're too good to clean houses and shovel french fries. The stories I could tell you about welfare mothers would turn your stomach. Like the time when my husband delivered a 12 year old with Down Syndrome during his junior med school OB rotation. The sweet baby was crying in fear and agony for her mommy and clutching a teddy bear while she was in labor. Come to find out that the new gramma, who was about 27 years old, had decided that her disability check (for "nerves") and her daughter's check together were insufficient to support her in the manner she wished and so she deliberately set up her daughter with a boyfriend so the child would have a baby that was handicapped and they'd get another check coming in. Heinous. The woman should have been arrested. As it was, I think child welfare got involved and that was about it.

[WarpGirl]

Oh trust me I have more than a few horror stories in my own family, and you are very right Dis but like I said all of the ways the government has come up with thus far has only made things worse for people like me. And that pisses me off!

[CX]

I probably won't know until tomorrow for sure, but I might actually be covered by the insurance I was talking about before. There's some confusion though, as the pamphlet I got to sign up for from the same insurance provider that's supposed to be providing insurance through my school as a GRA sent me a different kind of plan than the one I'm supposed to have as a GRA. On the GRA plan, which theoretically I was signed up for when I signed the paperwork to become a GRA, I would be completely covered and the school would pay my deductible, but the plan they sent me separately would only cover 80% of it and I'd have to pay the deductible myself. If I'm on the GRA plan, that would have started on the 16th and even my ER visit and the ultrasound would be covered, as well as my upcoming surgery. The only thing is, the school hasn't sent out the list yet to the insurance company of who's on what plan, so I have to talk to the school about it tomorrow.

[Distracted]

School insurance programs are a world unto themselves. It's still early in the semester, though. If you were supposed to be enrolled on the 16th and someone made a clerical error there may still be time to correct that if the final enrollment list hasn't been turned in for the semester. If it had been our policy involved then the insurance coverage would be retroactive from the first day of the semester just as soon as the list was turned in with your name on it. I hope yours works the same way. And even if you're only covered 80%, that's a whole lot better than nothing when you're talking a several-hundred-dollar ER bill followed by major surgery. If that's the case I would recommend that you talk to the hospital's billing office and tell them your situation. They may be willing to work with you on a payment plan over time.

[marchale]

Marchale, I have no problem at all subsidizing those who are truly disabled with my tax dollars. You probably don't want to hear my opinions about what government assistance programs are actually doing to America, though. I guess I've just seen too many people work the system to believe that it's fair for the government to take nearly half of my income in taxes to pay for "assistance programs" that enroll far too many people who are too lazy, "entitled", or trained in helplessness to take care of themselves.

The freeloaders and second or third generation "career welfare" recipients easily outnumber the truly disabled in every medical clinic I've ever worked for. Welfare is, in my opinion, a crutch that creates multiple generations of economically helpless individuals dependent on handouts to maintain a lifestyle which is unhealthy and which is producing the greatest obesity rates and illegitimate birth rates in the history of our country. Investing the same amount of money in our educational system that we do in supporting all of these illegitimate babies that welfare moms are deliberately conceiving out of wedlock in order to have another check coming in would actually teach the kids who've already been born the vital skills they will need to support themselves and get off of welfare, but no one wants to tell the moms that they've got to stop having babies or there's no money coming. It's not PC.

So no, I'm not in favor of an otherwise able-bodied young adult going on the dole with my tax dollars paying his way when he's perfectly capable of working. Yes, it might take a student longer to finish a degree that way. My dad supported a wife and two kids while getting his business degree in nine years instead of four. Was it hard? You bet. He did it because he made the choice to have a child (me) at a time when he was unable to support that child without going to work full time. I'm not certain if he regrets it or not, but he did what had to be done, and I am very grateful for it.

So I imagine that we will need to agree to disagree about government assistance programs.

Dis,

I apologize if you misunderstood me there - I don't like these generational or "career" welfare folks who take advantage of the system any more than you do. Maybe those kind of people irk me even more than they do you because so many folks look down on those of us who are deseserving of help just as much as those who are taking an unfair advantage of the government. And I do know what you mean about "those kind of people". My last job working was as a cashier in a grocery store and it was usually so damn obvious by their attitude that I could spot what we called a "Welfare Queen" long before she paid for her groceries with Food Stamps. Those kind of people piss me off to no end too, believe me.

But having been a poor struggling college student many years ago myself, I know what it's like trying to live on a jar of peanut butter and a loaf of bread as long as you can because you can't afford to buy real food because your money from working a couple of part time jobs has to go for tuition and books and bus fare to get to classes rather than buying meals, etc. My heart goes out to those poor as church mice college students sacrificing so much to try to get the education to earn their way in the world. Frankly, if the county hadn't stepped in to pay for what the University of Minnesota's health insurance didn't cover on my cyst surgery, I don't know what I would've done because I couldn't have afforded it, I didn't have any money (and I went pretty far into debt to my cab driver father just being laid up for awhile there after the surgery till I could go back to work again - I chose to let it heal naturally without stitches so it took alot longer to heal that way; as they told me it was a far less chance of recurance without the stitches).

I'm sorry to hear how your dad had to struggle there - now maybe you think I'm being too liberal in my views on this, but I think your dad (and CX, if CX is having it rough financially) should've been able to get help to try to make ends meet so that trying to make a better life for themselves and their families isn't such a hardship on them financially. Maybe if more folks trying to better themselves were given a helping hand financially when needed, maybe it might make some of those unfairly given assistance enough incentive to try to get off their butts and go to college or business school, etc so they could get off the welfare roles - instead of making it hard enough that many of them don't even want to try to better their lives. I think we should reward folks like your dad (and CX) by trying to help them out when they encounter difficulties financially like not being able to afford things while attending school, etc.

Anyway, maybe I'm not as liberal or PC as you might think I am; because I would love to see the welfare system overhauled to put an end to these babies having babies just so they can sit on welfare like their momma and grandma did before them. I wish it was as difficult to get help on welfare as it is to get on Disability. (I don't know if you know what that is like, but I heard that each case is reveiwed by a board of seven doctors who go over your medical record with a fine tooth comb to determine who is truly worthy and that its tough enough to get approved that often truly worthy folks sometimes have to fight with Social Security for years to get approved even when they are truly deserving of help - I think they are probably way too strict at times, but there should be some kind of way to reward those trying to make a better life for themselves so that so many of those young girls don't end up getting pregnant and on welfare just like their moms did. But maybe if those trying to make a better life for themselves could get some help so that college and/or tech schools weren't such a financial hardship for them, maybe we could get more folks off of welfare. I don't know, but I think college kids should be given whatever financial assistance they need from the government (and certainly in the case of needing an operation that they can't afford). They need to be rewarded for their efforts to try to get ahead, I think; and I wish your dad had been given that opportunity too, because those are the kind of folks who should be helped out when they could use a helping hand in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you about their being a problem with government assistance, Dis. I think we just probably have a disagreement on how we define who's needy and deserving of help because I think students should fall in that catagory too; they're sacrificing alot to try to become self sufficient and I think they should be helped out when they encounter financial hardships. But thats just my opinion.

[WarpGirl]

I envy the people who did get to work, and then got on regular disability. I'm on straight SSI and I'll never get disability because I never got the chance to fully enter the workforce. My one and only real job didn't last more than a year because my health gave out completely. And yet because of the people who abuse the system, I'm the one who gets screwed when the politicians try to "fix things" which always means cutting something.

[marchale]

I envy the people who did get to work, and then got on regular disability. I'm on straight SSI and I'll never get disability because I never got the chance to fully enter the workforce. My one and only real job didn't last more than a year because my health gave out completely. And yet because of the people who abuse the system, I'm the one who gets screwed when the politicians try to "fix things" which always means cutting something.

Well, I worked for many years before I got on Disability - but yeah, I wish to hell the politicians would leave Social Security the hell alone and stop talking about cutting it - they have no idea how frightening that kind of talk is to us disabled folks and the elderly who can't manage without it.

[WarpGirl]

Yeah I know! What's really awful is that it won't fix the problem of welfare mothers and other creeps who abuse the system. It'll just screw US!

[marchale]

Yeah I know! What's really awful is that it won't fix the problem of welfare mothers and other creeps who abuse the system. It'll just screw US!

Yeah, don't I know that, I wish they'd go after welfare waste and just leave Social Security the hell alone!