How much of Florida was left?

[cherryblossomjen]

Well, I'm just pulling some crap outta my butt in a vain attempt to explain some of the show's problems. I mean, how is it that Trip was up and about so soon after brain surgery? Or T'Pol was running around being a sidekick after being mind raped (several times)? Why was Hoshi actually restored to active service after having been tortured?

The show was terrible about actually dealing with the realistic aftermath of these situations. The Xindi assault was just one of those instances that don't really make sense if you approach it using realism.

I agree. I remember wondering why TPTB would choose to show Reed's physical injuries (was it his knee?) continuing on into the nest episode after his stunt in "Minefield" but would fail to suggest that T'Pol might actually need some type of recovery to deal with her repeated mental assaults.

On a side note,

Re: geographic illiteracy, I'm always annoyed with all foreigners, mostly from across the pond, that constantly mix up Sweden and Switzerland!

My mom leaves for Göteborg in the morning. I wish I was going with her but I've just started my Fall classes.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

On a side note,

Re: geographic illiteracy, I'm always annoyed with all foreigners, mostly from across the pond, that constantly mix up Sweden and Switzerland!

My mom leaves for Göteborg in the morning. I wish I was going with her but I've just started my Fall classes.

Cool, you didn't even spell it "Gothenburg"!

What's she going to do in Göteborg, if you don't mind my asking?

[cherryblossomjen]

What's she going to do in Göteborg, if you don't mind my asking?

She's visiting family -- most of whom live roughly 20 minutes outside the city. Mom was born in Sverige but moved to California when she was 21. So, even though I was born in the states, I pretty much grew up on Astrid Lindgren, Kalles caviar and Lingon. That and some Polynesian goodies since my dad's from the South Pacific.

Anyway, when my grandparents were alive we went to Sweden once a year. I love it there; it's so beautiful and peaceful. I wish I had a better grasp on the language though. I think I knew more at age 10 than I do now.

[TSara]

It's sort of like Drive a couple months back (before those idiots at FOX canceled it); they said that the current episode was set in Florida on I-75, an interstate that I am quite familiar with. In my many years of living in Florida, though, I never saw the mountains that were in the background...

Mountains? In Florida?

Sure we had the small hills in the northern part of the state....affectionately called the Florida Alps....but nope no Mountains.

As to the "trench" I imagine it probably did fill with water at least partially, considering that most of Florida isn't very high above sea level I don't see why it wouldn't.


I know we had problems digging in my neighborhood at times because the holes would fill with water after about 8 feet or so.

Than again....Mom did live less than a block from Venice Beach.

[CX]

Wow, you can get 8 feet down in Florida? Here we're lucky to get 4-5 feet before the ground water starts filling it back in. Makes putting in corner posts hell.

[Linda]

You are right, with the depth of the Xindi ditch as it seemed to be shown, it could fill quite a bit with ground water naturally. How interesting. And with that weapon going right on out into the ocean, probably there was some instant filling with sea water. I wonder if the weapon reached down digging into the sea floor as it moved off the southern Florida coast toward Central America?

Well, come to think of it, the western part of Wisconsin is currently inundated. Many people have lost their homes - several counties have been declared disaster areas. The water in our boat slip on Lake Michigan was up a foot, but has dropped down again. I fear the Great Lakes are slowly hemorhaging out into the Atlantic due to human manipulation of the landscape. But the flood waters in western Wisconsin will recede whereas Florida is in big trouble with the effects of global warming.

[blacknblue]

Perhaps it will give the Everglades a fighting chance to come back then.

I don't see the big hoopla over global warming. I honestly don't. The world has been a lot warmer than this before, even during Human history. Greenland was named Greenland because it used to be GREEN. There is the oft repeated reminders of how the British used to grow grapes. Leif and his horny hatted buddies named the northeastern coast of North America Vinland because they found grape vines there. How many vineyards do you find on the northeast coast of Canada nowadays?

So what if there is a lot of carbon dioxide in the air? It is a self-correcting problem. Plants love the stuff. Carbon dioxide encourages plant growth, just like ultraviolet radiation encourages plant growth. Plants take carbon dioxide and ultraviolent radiation, water and nutrients from the soil and use it to produce sugar, water vapor, and oxygen. And shade too. Everybody wins.

And Polar bears have been through these temperature swings before. So have penguins. So have all the little fishes around the north pole. Everything that lives on Earth has been through this before, let us never forget that. It is not a new phenomenon. It is routine for Mother Earth to do this. She has always gone through temperature fluctuations, and she always will. Someday she will get cold again, and we will all have to start panicing about the Ice Ages coming back.

Just like we did back in the 1970's, when I was a boy. And all the self-proclaimed experts and weather specializing fear-mongers stridently proclaimed that the end was nigh and unless we all opened our checkbooks and gave them our money, we would all freeze to death when the glaciers engulfed New York before the year 2000. I remember it quite well.

[Linda]

Well, I have been reading Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth and it has me scared. From the glacial cores showing the fluxuations in the past, things seem to be changing faster now and to a greater extent than in the past. While I am not an environmental scientist, from what I have read, the scientific community thinks we have something to worry about and that we need to make some changes in the way we are treating the planet. I would LOVE to think there is no problem. REALLY! I hate to worry about the world and what my grandchildren will have to deal with. I won't have to deal with it; I have maybe twenty or thirty years left at best unless medical science comes up with miracles and they are handed out to us ordinary people. Or the 'Vulcans' show up bearing gifts of technological solutions while telling us "we come to serve" and "do as we say and not as we did to our own planet", LOL. But I think we are on our own and really need to make some changes.

[Rigil Kent]

With all due respect, what does this global warming discussion have to do with the original question? I'm not trying to step on any toes, but we've already seen how these sort of political discussions (and that's what this is) degenerate.

[Linda]

Okay, back to the Xindi and Florida. If the ocean entered the trench with a tsunami type wave, how far into it do you think it would have penetrated and how deep would the water have been?

[blacknblue]

Water seeks its own level, no matter how far it has to go. Given that the trench extended all the way across Florida, so would the water. At least from what I saw on screen.

[Emberchyld]

I've been thinking about the 7 million people and how it could be possible if the effects of the beam were only concentrated to what was seen on screen.

So I Wiki'ed a few places:

The city of Hyderabad in India has a population of about 6 (maybe up to 7) million people (and it's a fairly modern metropolis, when compared to the larger Delhi or Mumbai/Bombay)

Tokyo has a population of over 35 million people

NYC has over 22 million people

Atlanta has a metropolitan population (the city and its surrounding suburbs) of over 5 million people

and Miami: "Miami is a gamma world city with an estimated population of 404,048. It is the largest city within the South Florida metropolitan area, which is the largest metropolitan area in the Southeastern United States with 5.4 million people. Miami and its surrounding cities make up the fifth largest urban area in the United States.[1]"

Considering how the world population keeps growing, how many Southern cities (like Atlanta and Memphis) are becoming go-to areas, Snowbirds, and the precedent of formerly small towns growing into big surburban areas, I don't think the 7 million is so far-fetched after all-- only one big city and its suburbs needs to be hit. Hit 2 small cities and you probably would get to that number, too.

Who knows if, 150 years from now, there are a few large cities in the former Fla everglades region? Or if "Panezuela" becomes a city with a population density similar to Hyderabad or Tokyo?

This doesn't explain the dry gouges in the earth, but it can explain the number of deaths.

[TSara]

Wow, you can get 8 feet down in Florida? Here we're lucky to get 4-5 feet before the ground water starts filling it back in. Makes putting in corner posts hell.

Oh don't get me wrong.....we had some major seepage after about 3 or 4 feet....but it wasn't so bad that you had more water than dirt.


I have heard....and don't quote me...that burying people in Florida was a pain in the ass.

The biggest hole we dug though was about 8 feet.....and that was because we were going to dig a well. I was pretty young but I think the well guys drill thingy broke....so my mom offered to help. I don't remember.....I just remember helping to dig the well.

[CX]

Oh no, I'm not talking just seepage here, I'm talking that if you managed to get the 5 feet down that we usually like to put the cornerpost in, minimum, that usually you wereputting it in a hole full of water and had to tamp a long tiime to not only make sure the dirt and gravel was packed tightly, but to force the water out of the hole.

[TSara]

Ah I see.

I have heard from a friend who worked at the local grave yard that they had to pump water out when they would bury people.

It's what 6 feet down in order to bury someone?

I just know that we could get away with digging 3-4 feet and yes their would be water....but it wasn't too bad yet.