One useful comment

[WarpGirl]

Nightmares of the slippery slope. Sorry.

[Distracted]

No worries, sweetie. You were just trying to help.

[Silverbullet]

There are other subjects, aside from forceable Rape, that bear scrutiny. Gratuitous Sex. Gratuitous Violence, death of a main character. These are not as voilatle as Rape is but can still stir some controversy.

Sex. so far all of it I have seen on this board has been handled well, in a mature manner. However I have seen in FF Net a few cases where it was overdone and not tastefully. Sex is great but writing about is not that easy. One thing about Porn is it is boring as Hell. It is repetitous and limited. Writing good interesting Sex needs the element of Love in it. Often that part is left out. What we have left is heavy breathing and thrashing about. I have yet to try writing Sex. Not sure I can. It isn't that I don't have the experience in Sex it is because I don't have the experience in writing.

Violence. I haven't read very much violence in any stories here or on FF Net. That does not mean it doesn't exist. I have read only a few stories on HOT or Warp 5 complex. I am fairly certain there are other boards which contain ST stories including Enterprise based. That might have stories with excessive Violence. Violence can be more broadly written than Porn. It can take many forms but the usual is physical violence and sometimes mental. But mental violence doesn't carry the impact of physical violence.

Death of a main character. If there is a good valid reason for it other than just to get a character out of the way. At times Trip has been killed simply because he was in the way of developing a story line or another paring of T'Polwith someone else. T'Pol too has been bumped off because she was in the way or the writer thought it would add to the Pathos of the story. To my mind a valid reason is one where a main character dies in battle, saving anothers life, or for some other sacrifice. this is after all fiction and it should be a better death than what we got in the Abomination. I am not against character death per se but it has to have a good solid valid reason. Not just that the character is invconvienient to the story.

Lastly, another Hot Button issue, Pairing T'Pol with others. There is a great deal of Archer/T'Pol fic out there. Many writers prefer that paring. I don't. Canon, the Enterprise series never suggested anything in that direction. I recently scanned a story where Reed and T'Pol were an intimate pair at the end. As usual, Trip was made a fool and an Ass, so T'Pol would have nothing to do with him and chose instead Reed. Often that is the case. Trip is a drunk, a fool, an Ass or all three at once. That way he can be shoved aside. Whatever floats your boat. But I will stick to Canon which is Trip and T'Pol

As I say there are other issues that come up other than Rape that have adherents on each side of the question.

SB

[Distracted]

I have mixed feelings about explicit sex. On the one hand, it can be a lot of fun to read if done well. On the other hand, it's so very rarely done well that sometimes I just have to wince and move on. Explicit bloody violence is something I honestly prefer not to read even when it's done well, though. I picked up a Steven King novel in the pharmacy the other day while I was waiting to pick up a prescription and started reading at random just to see if anything had changed since the last time I'd tried to read one. The scene disgusted me so much I had to put it down. Obviously the man is successful. Millions of people read his books. I just don't like slasher books. I think they're gross. Maybe it's because I've actually seen what it looks like when people get cut up, shot, or crushed by things. I don't watch the movies, either, but my oldest child has seen every "Saw" movie made. He likes them.

[Silverbullet]

Addenem to the Pairings. Trip gets Killed. Lots of those stories where he dies and T'Pol hooks up with another male.

I started one while cruising HOT. cannot remember the title or the writer. Trip is dead and T'Pol is determined to get pregnant by Shran. Why? I could never understand the reason the writer put in T'Pol's mouth. I never finished the story. Again, if there is a good valid reason for Trip to die, fine, fut if he is just in the way,No. IMHO

SB

[WarpGirl]

My thing about these "hot button" topics is that I'd rather read about the impact of these events and not necessarily need a blow by blow account of the actual events. Let me give an example, note: not out of any specific fic, I am merely making up a situation... Trip or T'Pol get captured by baddies, they are tortured. Maybe repeatedly beaten, whipped and cut with sharp objects. I don't need to be taken step by step through the process as it's happening. I'd rather not read an entire story about TnT getting skinned.

That doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't happen. An author can focus on what is going on internally to TnT. How they fortify themselves and survive what is happening to them. Then when they are either resuced or escape, a writer can delve into the recovery process, physical mental and emotional.

I have pretty much the same view when it comes to sex.

As for character deaths, unless it's Travis (who never really did a whole lot) give me a darn good reason! It doesn't have to be a dramatic hero's death sacrificing himself for a cause or person. It could be an illness, and accident. These things do happen. But make it meaningful. Make it fit the tale your telling and focus on the impact of it on others.

Other Pairings... Tricky, no doubt about it. Honestly, I don't really have a problem with either Trip or T'Pol finding someone after the other passes away. However, I usually don't believe it would be anyone in ENT. I manage to believe it much more when the character is a well done OC.

[Distracted]

My thing about these "hot button" topics is that I'd rather read about the impact of these events and not necessarily need a blow by blow account of the actual events.

Same here. I like CSI. I can watch it over dinner. So it's not the blood and guts that disgust me, it's the way they're presented. I guess it's similar to my attitude about meat. I have no desire to watch the steer being slaughtered, but I do enjoy a good steak now and then.

[WarpGirl]

I was thinking of L&O when I wrote it.

[Silverbullet]

I have never read a story where Trip willingly walks away from T'Pol for another female after then became Lovers. Before, Natalie comes to mind but she was long before Trip met T'Pol

He would have a lot invested in his relationship with T'Pol: going against much of his society, Learning to adjust to her lifestyle and she his. Life would not be a bed of Roses for them. Which is why I belive with th addition of Emotional investment of Love Trip would never leave T'Pol or share her with anyone.

SB

[Distracted]

I've read stories where he just finally gave up after she pushed him away too many times, though. They make me sad, but they're believable. The writers wrote her as waxing so hot and cold that it would be perfectly in character for her to decide that having a relationship with a human wasn't logical and "Vulcan" enough, and so to follow her traditions she had to end it with Trip. And I can see him finally, after much heartache and struggle, accepting her decision and moving on while she settled for a loveless marriage with some Vulcan. I just don't like reading them much because I'm not much for tragedies. I like my stories to have happy endings.

[WarpGirl]

Well for me personally, those stories tend to portray her as uncaring, or too oblivious to realize anyone is hurt other than herself. So I don't usually enjoy them because they don't jive with the way I see her character. But Dis is correct, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that one or both of them could decide that no matter how much love they have for each other it just can't work out. And it conicides with canon. I don't object to stories like that, they're just not my cup of tea.

[Silverbullet]

Willingly! in the example you give, DIS, she drives him away it is not willingness on his part. He would stay if she weren't so cold and obstinate. Both deciding to break up. Same thing Trip would do it because she holds no future for him. She pushes him away and pulls him back and then finally drives him off for good.

No, I am thinking that they are Lovers, seemingly happy and he meets another female and leaves T'Pol willingly for that female. Never read or heard of one like that. Probably one exists though.

The cold T'Pol driving Trip away I doubt is canon. She hurts him but relents in Bound and in Demons and Terra Prime they are intimate Lovers.

Two of my favorite HOT stories are "conversation in a Jefferis Tube and another that I don't know the title but T'Pol engages in a fight to the death for Trip. That is the way I like to think of my favorite couple.

SB

[WarpGirl]

SB Does anyone walk willingly away from a relationship where they are happy? No of course not! Therefore the person "walking away" must be unhappy. For whatever reason that may be, either T'Pol "driving him away" or for any other reason because let's face it, people "willingly" leave relationships for a number of reasons. If an author comes up with a set of circumstances where either party is unhappy in the relationship, (and I must add uses every oppertunity to fix said circumstances before ending it) then yes, one or both of them could "willingly walk away."

[Distracted]

I think SB is talking about the "grass is greener" phenomenon that for some reason seems to disproportionately affect middle aged males. They love their wives/current partners, but their twenty year old secretary is just so shiny and new that they just have to play with her.

No, I don't see Trip doing that. Very OOC.

[WarpGirl]

I don't think it's a "grass is greener phenomenon" I just think those a great majority of men have the potential to become jackasses! And probably were jackasses all along. But developed said "phenomnon" in some bogus attempt to make it socially acceptable. Sorry hate cheaters!

No Trip was not developed with those tendencies. Malcolm on the other hand, if he married the wrong person I am sorry to say might.