Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

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Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:26 am

Okay I didn't want to start this topic in the TnT section because I wanted it to be more "open" to different characters, and situations that we authors sometimes go...

Occasionally, at times we authors put our characters in situations where they become phyiscally, and/or mentally limited. Off the top of my head I can think of...

Panyasan having Hoshi sustaning injuries that damaged her hearing, in The Captives, and boy am I waiting to see what comes next.

Elessar had given Hoshi a plethra of issues in his Your Mother and Me series... And again I'm impatiently awaiting more.

Several authors, and I can't remembered all of them have busted Malcolm's legs, and other things at times.

And I'm sure a few have done things to TnT as well, but I can't remember specifics...

Let me just state I LOVE all of the stories I'm referring too. I'm just bringing them up for the topic, I've got no bad things to say about this plot device whatsoever.

As a matter of fact I'm thinking about putting a twist on it... It has always bothered me that Trip, genius that he is, states catagorically that he has, "no ear for languages" and is envious of Hoshi's abilities. As smart as Trip is it seems to me that if he worked hard enough, this could be something he could easily overcome. But he doesn't seem to think so and I find myself wondering why????????????

So while wracking my brain for a plausible explanation for him learning to speak Vulcan in six months, while wanting to incorperate the bond into it an idea hit me... What if Trip was born deaf and had the 22nd century equivilant of cochlear implants

Now let me state for the record that I realize this is a controversial subject, both within the deaf community and outside of it. I grew up with many deaf people in my life with a lot of friends on both sides of the issue. My own opinion is it's up to the indivdual and families involved.

But that's for today, I'm wondering if in the 22nd centruy outlooks on all sorts of disabilities might be completely different. So to anyone that writes any character with any sort of limitation, how do you think the 22nd century would view "disabilities."
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby aadarshinah » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:45 am

Well, I've nothing helpful for your specific deaf!Trip idea, but I do remember than in the TOS episodes "The Menagerie," pts 1 & 2, they had Pike an utter parapalegic dependant on a flashing light (1x for yes, 2x for no) to communicate before he returned to Talos IV and its we-make-dreams-reality people, who "dreamt" him back to full health, even if he wasn't really.

Anyway, in the episode, everyone seemed very respectful and even somewhat in awe of Pike, and the punishment for visiting the planet (ie, Spock's death) was waved on his account. Here's the relivant bit of transcript:

KEEPER [on screen]: What you now seem to hear, Captain Kirk, are my thought transmissions. The Commodore was never aboard your vessel. His presence there and in the shuttlecraft was an illusion. Mister Spock had related to us your strength of will. It was thought the fiction of a court-martial would divert you from too soon regaining control of your vessel. Captain Pike is welcome to spend the rest of his life with us, unfettered by his physical body. The decision is yours and his.
KIRK: Mister Spock, even if regulations are explicit, you could have come to me and explained.
SPOCK: Ask you to face the death penalty, too? One of us was enough, Captain.
KIRK: Yes.
UHURA [OC]: Message from Starbase Eleven, sir. Received images from Talos Four. In view of historic importance of Captain Pike in space exploration, General Order Seven prohibiting contact Talos Four is suspended this occasion. No action contemplated against Spock. Proceed as you think best. Signed, Mendez, J.I., Commodore, Starbase Eleven.
KIRK: Chris, do you want to go there? (flash) Mister Spock, would you care to take Captain Pike to the transporter room, see him off?
SPOCK: Thank you, sir, for both of us. (flash)


Of course, it's a century later, but make of it what you will.

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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:54 am

Well I don't really need help with the deaf Trip idea. Like I said, I'm pretty well informed on that. The main reason I brought it up was I am more interested about the controversy surrounding the actual "curing" of disabilities in general. For example, Temple Grandin is a world famous professor, animal rights activist, and possibly the most famous person with Autism alive today. And while she is incredibly active in bringing awareness about autism and researching it to the general masses she is dead set against "curing autism" saying it would take away who she is. People who are deaf have the same issues with cochlear implants. Some people who are blind are against cornea transplants. I'm sure if someone found a way to cure CP thousands of people like me would also be dead set against it.

Would it be the same way in the future? IDK...
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby aadarshinah » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:05 am

*shrugs*

It's a quality of life thing, I'd guess. Would you have a better quality of life without CP? Would certain things be easier? Would changing now, at this point in your life, change who you'd have been in the future?

With some things, like deafness, yes, it's an issue, but it is possible to get by quite well without your hearing. Granted, on a spaceship being able to hear such things and alerts and comms and the exact sound the engine is making are important, but there are such things as flashing red lights to tell you something's wrong and text messages, and Beethoven made his best music when he was deaf, so whose to say fixing warp-drive and such wouldn't work the same way? Granted, I think SF might make or at least really want a deaf engineer, especially the CoE, to have an implant, but what do I know?

I think you could make an arguement either way. But, seeing as how it's the future and people like Soong can create genetic cures and others (a little farther in the future) Visors for the blind, I think the general idea of a deaf person in the future not getting his problem fixed might be seen like, oh, how we see someone not getting their kid vaccinized now.

Now, if you excuse me, my brother is watching Jersey Shore. I think my intervention is required.

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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby Brandyjane » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:07 am

I think this is a fascinating topic, and I love your idea for Trip.

Right now we seem to be moving toward more acceptance of disabilities. However, I can't help but wonder if in the future - say, a hundred years from now - it will be very different. There is already controversy about genetic testing of embryos for a wide variety of diseases and disabilities. As the practice is perfected, it might become the norm in the future. If it does become the norm, then fewer and fewer kids will be born with disabilities. It seems to me that those who are born with disabilities might actually face even greater stigmatization in the future if they are much rarer. If I'm right, in the future, the prevailing cultural expectation would be that a parent would do anything possible to fix the problem, and maybe even hide it from the world, if possible, until you do get it fixed. (I don't know how the whole Eugenics War thing would play into this dynamic.)

However, Trek gives a much more optimistic view of human nature than that. In the Trek universe, I would think humans would be accepting and welcoming of a person with disabilities. A fan fiction writer who was trying to stay in the spirit of Star Trek would probably avoid the dystopian view of the future that I just presented, but that's the first thing that popped into my mind when you posed the question.

Now, regarding adults who were disabled due to injury, there may be less stigma attached because there will be better technology to correct the problem or at least help the individual function in society. For example, there will probably be robotic exoskeletons for people with paralysis that can't be cured, etc.

(I really hope my answer didn't just offend a lot of people. I know this is a sensitive topic.)

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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:13 am

Stop him before his brain decays! The people who make those shows are truly disabled in the creativity department.

Here's the thing... I know how I feel about the issues of "curing" disabilities. I know how I would react to these things. After all, I am disabled... But what I would never want to do is not take into considerations other people's feelings on the topic.

And I agree with you Brandyjane that the ST world is pretty much accepting of either viewpoint, the idea of offending someone who believes a person with a physical or mental limitation does not "need to be cured" scares the heck out of me.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby Distracted » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:45 am

I did my take on the Vulcan view of mental disabilities, but that's different than a physical disability, I think.

I'm thinking that genetic syndromes like Down Syndrome will soon be practically non-existent in real life because once reliable non-invasive pre-birth genetic screening of embryos is widely available I'm afraid that only a few affected children will end up being born. We're almost there now, except that not every affected child is picked up by pre-birth screening, definitive testing is invasive, and some parents still choose to have the child when screening is positive. If genetic screening were universal, reliable, non-invasive and possible in the first trimester I seriously doubt there'd be many Down's kids left. I won't get into whether that's a good or a bad thing, but I'd be willing to bet that some would argue in favor of "removing the burden on society".

Here's a rather dystopian theory I have. Since by the time of Enterprise genetically modified eugenically "perfected" humans have already been born, I'm thinking that genetic engineering is already in widespread use and such pre-birth universal screening is available. Since actual correction of genetic diseases (as opposed to just termination) would have to be done during conception in a lab, and I can't conceive of any way to change the genome of an embryo after natural conception, one could assume that the improvement of the genome and the lack of disease in ST is the result of widespread culling of defective pregnancies (especially after World War 3 and its accompanying radiation). That's one possible explanation for why there is so little disease in ST. During that time in Earth's history nearly every defective embryo was culled and only the ones without genetic defects were allowed to be born.

Talk about a story concept. What if it was hushed up? What if the current generation doesn't know?
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:54 am

OK Dis you just scared the heck out of me. But that would kind of not make sense because it was too "controversial" to "terminate" the augment embryos. So how would a cover up that massive work? Besides there's also another problem, not all disabilities are genetic like Downs, CP isn't, deafness isn't... So what about things that simply won't show on a genetic scan?
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby Distracted » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:04 am

Many causes of deafness are genetic. So are many causes of blindness. Those that are not genetic are generally caused by nerve damage. CP is usually caused by strokes or other intrauterine or perinatal brain damage. I'm assuming many of these would be treatable if non-invasive whole body imaging were available to diagnose the lesions and the babies were then given treatment to break up the clot before permanent damage occurred, like we do now with adults. Neurologic damage is often reversible in infants because their brains are still growing. I can also see further stem cell research resulting in curative treatments for brain damage and nerve damage caused by other reasons. And cloning techniques could provide transplantable organs. What if they could clone just one organ from the person's own umbilical stem cells and use that for a transplant? There would be no rejection because the organ would be genetically identical to the original.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:33 am

True, you're talking to the chior about most of this stuff. Gentic screening and body scans are a start, I'm not even sure even if you could find all the genetic causes of disabilities, that you could cure them all before birth. The medical Technology in ENT is advanced, but I'm not sure it was that advanced in the 24th century.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby aadarshinah » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:37 am

Well, they could create Augments and had the Eugenics Wars... so who knows?

Though it's something to consider. Either you have the deaf-from-birth stigma, or the became-deaf-for-some-reason, which could earn sympathy (if it's "incurable") or frustration (if he refuses to have it "cured")... so you'll def have to think of what route you'll go down.

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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby WarpGirl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:39 am

Ah but there are also extremely strict laws that Earth, and later the Federation has about genetic screening and modification because of the Augments and the Eugenics Wars. So even if they could do all these things, it might not be legal too. I mean that's why great-grandpapa Soong was locked up to begin with. That's why the Augments were chased down, well... Julian Bashir was illegally augmented... The list goes on...

About Trip what's funny about it is I don't want to write about him being stigmatized at all. It's a non-issue in my head. What I'm scared of is offending a reader that thinks deafness, or any other "disability" does not need to be cured.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby aadarshinah » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:30 am

To go back to the legality for a moment...

Bashir was born "slow," not with any particular defect, if I recall my DS9 correctly. He was Augmented fully for personal gain - even if it was his parents ordering the augmenting. But Picard was born with Shalaft's Syndrome, which, presumabily, requires gentic manipulation or intensive surgury in youth to fix, and was never looked down upon/scorned/arrested for it, as, again, it was a "quality of life" thing.

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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby panyasan » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:15 pm

So the reason Trip isn't good in languages is because he is born deaf and has ear-implants which makes him able to hear? I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but isn't the reason Trip has the implants so he can hear and learn languages? I am not saying good hearing is of influence when you learn language, but the main reason people have trouble learning language is that they don't have the talent for it. In Trips case it makes perfect sense: most people who are brilliant at science - engineering - maths (alfa people) are not good in other skills (that beta people are good at). Good example: master mind-professors who can't even boil an egg, because they don't have any pratical skills.
If Trip has learned Vulcan so quickly, I would say it was because of T'Pol excellent training combined with the bond helping him (if Trips humor was rubbing off on TPol, her Vulcan knowlegde could also rub off). I hope I don't offend, but the explanation of him suddenly speaks reasonable Vulcan because he was born deaf and wears implants, it's sounds a bit forced to me.

As for genetic diseases... Well, I have a husband who has one and managed to create a life, not without pain, but with an enjoyment for life. It does color my perception on the subject. I think the best discussion I ever heard in Star Trek about dissabilities/genetic discussion, is a conversation in TNG between Geordie and an woman from an alien race, who's society doesn't accept any flaws. She asked Geordie why he was aloud to be born, because he was blind. He answered that blindness is part of how he is and that he used technology to function, even when he is blind. He is proud of who he is. He is Georgie, who happens to be blind, not a blind man. I thought it expressed it very well.
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Re: Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

Postby Aikiweezie » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:39 pm

panyasan wrote: I think the best discussion I ever heard in Star Trek about dissabilities/genetic discussion, is a conversation in TNG between Geordie and an woman from an alien race, who's society doesn't accept any flaws. She asked Geordie why he was aloud to be born, because he was blind. He answered that blindness is part of how he is and that he used technology to function, even when he is blind. He is proud of who he is. He is Georgie, who happens to be blind, not a blind man. I thought it expressed it very well.


That episode was on just a few days ago. Great episode. They weren't aliens at all, but selectively-bred humans who separated themselves from humanity to remain that way. Not only was Geordi proud of who he was, as a man born blind, but the technology in his visor enabled him to save the society from imminent destruction. If he weren't blind and using the visor, his special abilities wouldn't exist and their colony would have been destroyed. He was deeply offended by the group's perceptions of disabilities. At the end of the episode several of the selectively-bred people chose to leave on Enterprise.

As an idealist I hope that in the future we become MORE accepting of "imperfections," "Variations" and disabilities of all kinds. Distracted's version of what might be freaks me out quite a bit. :explode: I think humanity learned a BIG lesson from the Eugenics War that the whole "new and improved humans" thing was a BAD idea.

Based on what I know about the current direction of the study of genetics, it should be possible in the next 100 - 150 years to either treat genetic problems in the parent, the embryo or the person by correcting the mistake on the affected strand of DNA or RNA . Also given where things like stem cell research is going, I would think that all kinds of neurological injuries will be correctable, making disabilities far more rare.


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