Perception Of Disabilities In The 22nd Century

[WarpGirl]

@ WarpGirl: About Trip and Alzheimer's, yeah I used some kleenex on that one, lol . . . On the other hand I cheated slightly to show a best-case scenario of someone with that disease.

@WarpGirl and Brandyjane: I understand Trip's frustration with language and I don't have any official disability. I used to get A's and B's in most of my classes and C's in languages. Then when I did learn a language it was alot easier to speak than to understand what was coming at me, the opposite of most people's experience. Although I did meet one or two others like me. I just chalk it up to brain wiring. Oh yeah, and plenty of teachers told me it was only my "fear" that was preventing me from understanding.

Well jT, I think I'll skip reading about Trip and Alzheimer's. No offense, I'm just not sure I can handle such a tear jerker. As for Trip, as I've said before... Even deaf people without the cochlear implants can learn different languages. I'm not saying it's the actual being born deaf, that gives Trip trouble learning languages. But the psychological impact that hampers him... And that is actually quite common... My unconscious mind keeps me from doing many things that are physically possible for me to do. But you are also right about brain wiring... For example my brain isn't wired for math, or gammar and punctuation. I'm not lazy, I'm not dumb, it just doesn't connect for me and then I panic.

[panyasan]

Thanks for the transcript Panyasan but that wasn't the only episode where Trip expresses envy for Hoshi's talents. I'm thinking about Fight or Flight... Look at this...

HOSHI: How long before the transceiver's online?
TUCKER: A minute or two. I can't get enough of this. An alien spaceship sending off a message to who knows where.
HOSHI: The quicker we get this done, the quicker we can get back to the ship.
TUCKER: It's your second away mission in two days.
HOSHI: Yeah, great.
TUCKER: I wish I had an ear for languages. The Captain's going to need a translator with him a lot more often than an engineer.
HOSHI: Distress. Two other teachers and I once took a hydro-skimmer out onto a small tributary in the Amazon. You know, to see the wildlife. Sloths, pink dolphins, all kinds of snakes.
TUCKER: Wow.
HOSHI: It gave me the creeps. If I didn't like being around anacondas, you can imagine how I feel about Suliban or whoever butchered the crew of this ship. I'm going to ask the Captain to take me home.
TUCKER: You serious?
HOSHI: I should have never left the university. I'm not suited for this.
TUCKER: Give it a try. You'll be fine.
HOSHI: You weren't here yesterday. I saw those bodies and fell apart. The Captain needs a translator he can count on. Someone who shows a little grace under pressure. That isn't me.
TUCKER: You can't be sure of that.
HOSHI: Oh yes I can. Distress. Distress.
UT: Kunatsila.
HOSHI: I think I've got it. Ship in distress.
UT: Dukdum dor kunatsila. (Tucker transmits the message)

Now call me crazy (on such little sleep I'm more so than usual) but this is a guy who jumps into anything he can get anyone to teach him, look at how he got pregnant... Now here is the prime oppertunity for him to learn from arguably one of the best lignuists of that era, and all he says is "I wish I had an ear for languages" to me that doesn't make sense. Most of the time Trip at least asks for tips if he's really interested in a subject. And I'm certain he's mentioned his interests at other times as well, yet he never acted on them, I gotta ask why???? It doesn't add up for me.

Well, for me it comes across the same as the previous transcript: he is giving some one - Hoshi - who has been very insecure - a compliment. It doesn't mean Trip is insecure or convinced he can't speak languages - he is given Hoshi a compliment. Maybe language is just not his thing, like maths isn't mine. It doesn't mean I am have a mental block or something. The whole idea of a mentally crippled Trip just doesn't work for me. Guess we have to agree to disagree.

[WarpGirl]

The whole idea of a mentally crippled Trip just doesn't work for me. Guess we have to agree to disagree.

I'm sorry, I in no way meant to imply that Trip is "mentally crippled" that's kind of my point. Trip isn't mentally crippled at all. There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't learn other languages if he wanted. You brought up the fact that some people of great intellect are absolute rubbish at practical things (the genius that can't boil an egg) but that isn't Trip. It just isn't, his type of intellect is pretty much all encompassing from what I've seen of his character. If he's interested in it, he can do it. So all the times he says he's interested in languages and then procedes to say "I wish I can do that," make absolutely no sense to me. Why did he never ask Hoshi to teach him anything? That was her job for years! He'll ask anybody to teach him anything that's he finds cool, (box of rocks game) but not this...

I know you're a linguist Panyasan, and I know there are people who are just no good at it, in the sense they don't learn quickly. But for humans at any rate, our brains are designed naturally to pick this stuff up regardless. Drop anyone in a country where they don't speak the language and leave them there long enough and eventually, they have to figure out how to communicate, and eventually start picking up the language itself. Even if they're not language people. It can't be helped. They've done it plenty of times on ST because that's how it works.

[Alelou]

"I wish I can do that" could be just a polite thing to say in those situations, as others have pointed out. Trip is already a warp engineer who has a passion for photography, old movies, music, scuba diving, sports and fitness, and beautiful Vulcan women. Especially if you have a consuming career, there are a limited number of things you can master in your free time; you can't do everything.

[justTripn]

JT, as you know many of the Asian Languages are Tonal. The inflection can change the meaning of a word that sounds similar but the meaning changes with the inflection. My wife could pick that up but I am tone deaf. I listen to Music nd love it but found out that I really wasn't hearing what others hear. I have even once heard in only half tones. wierd. I was listening to a Beethoven work that I am very familiar with and only heard half tones. Caused by an Air conditioner blowing directly on my head from about two feet away.

No one is so tone deaf they can't hear the tones. Asians can speak their own language whether they are tone deaf or not. In fact in an Asian country there was an experiment done. People who claimed they were tone deaf were told what "note" their own mid tone was. Then a week later they could identify at least that note. (Maybe that's not too surprising.) I can teach any English speaker the tones in Thai by comparing it to how we say the word "yeah" (meaning 'yes') in six different ways: to indicate reluctant acceptance (low tone), to ask, "really" (rising tone), weary acceptance (mid tone), enthusiastic acceptance (falling tone) etc . . . No American would miss the separate meanings of these tones with the word "yeah," I guarantee you. We Americans don't talk like robots either. We just aren't used to having to listen for a tone on every word.

[Silverbullet]

JT, In the Foreign Service Institute languages are taught. I tried to learn a little Chinese in a 12 week crash course. The teachers in the Institute (Asian Languages) all said that many Asian Languages were tonal and that an inflectin could change the meaning of a word. My wife PIcked up some chinnese.Me? a Little. As it was, she worked with Chinese in the mission as she was the General Services Officer. I worked in a Vault alone and never came in to the Language as all of the Chinese in the Mission wanted to practice teir Engllish. (Same thing in just about every country I was in. I simply didn't have the time for lessons and the opportunity to practice the language.) When in Thailand I listened to a wonderful language that sang.

Aside, in the mission I got along famously with the Chinese Admin Aide. We talked a great deal (when I had the oppoortunity) about China, the Chinese History. He even got me a Chinese Chess set and translated the rules for me. Nice guy, He was also a colonoel in the Chinse Secret Police and actually ran the Mission Chinese employees. The fact that I was interested in the Chinese, he made sure I could get my long distance calls through to the U.S. immediately. The Marine guards who called the Chinese "gooks" couldn't get a call through. Pays to play nice at times.

SB

[panyasan]

"I wish I can do that" could be just a polite thing to say in those situations, as others have pointed out. Trip is already a warp engineer who has a passion for photography, old movies, music, scuba diving, sports and fitness, and beautiful Vulcan women. Especially if you have a consuming career, there are a limited number of things you can master in your free time; you can't do everything.

The box of rocks is mentioned, but in my view the episode Unexpected proves Alelou's point. Trip was interesting in the engineering of the ship and the engineer of the alien ship introduced him to the box of rocks. (He maybe also be plain curious about other cultures - he is more open for them then a lot of other people in the crew.) Trip is very interested in learning more about alien engineering (including Vulcan) and because he is the Chief Engineering that's no surprise for me.

[WarpGirl]

It's not just alien engines that Trip is interested in... How many times has he been excited to meet a new culture, and immerse himself in it? And he pretty much tries to go as far as he can to learn anything anyone will teach him. But not even a few words like "hi" or "thanks"...

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Ah'len say the box or rocks was a game???????? I'm assuming she didn't say the game is a piece of alien technology that helps them master engineering problems...

This has gotten so off topic and I appologize. But I'd buy Trip being "polite" about wishing he could learn languages if it happened only once, but it didn't, it happened more than once or twice. Heck it happened on an occasion where he was just talking about Hoshi! But I don't remember the episode.

Now if you all will excuse me I'm very sick today so I'm gonna go chill.

[panyasan]

It's not just alien engines that Trip is interested in... How many times has he been excited to meet a new culture, and immerse himself in it?

Hardly ever, besides being interested in Vulcan culture and maybe the culture of the Cognitor - but he is showing he/she more of his own culture. He likes to show T'Pol his culture as well.

And he pretty much tries to go as far as he can to learn anything anyone will teach him.

I can't say I can find examples of this in the show, except for an interest in what other engineers, like Kov and A'lehn, can teach him.

But I give up, it's not worth another post.

[aadarshinah]

It's not just alien engines that Trip is interested in... How many times has he been excited to meet a new culture, and immerse himself in it?

Hardly ever, besides being interested in Vulcan culture and maybe the culture of the Cognitor - but he is showing he/she more of his own culture. He likes to show T'Pol his culture as well.

Hmmm... I'd say he's interested in people. With the Cogenitor, he was interested in cogenitor as a person, and that person was highly effected by it's culture. He was interested in T'Pol as a person, and so he got interested in Vulcan culture. Things - or, at least, abstracts like languages - not so much.