Archer as Captain

[Silverbullet]

Thing is, why did they drop her? From the Episode I got the idea she was tied up with the Suliban someway and possibly the Cold War. It would have been interesting to have her show up again later. that was about the only part of Two days and two nights I enjoyed. Had lots of potential for future episodes.

[Aquarius]

I think that the job in and of itself makes it hard for him to be Relationship Guy. I certainly don't see him having this huge string of one-night stands...but maybe an occasional one-night "meaningful relationship" with someone he really, really liked. Kind of the way Hoshi did in the same episode. She really liked the dude, it wasn't either one's fault that it couldn't last or grow into more, but both chose to "sieze the day" (or night, as it were) and take what they could get while they could get it. I could see Archer being moved to do that every once in a great while.

[honeybee]

Yes, I think Archer would engage in a one night stand - once in a great while. Not on a regular basis.

I think the TCW wasn't well-received, and they decided to drop it. They moved away from it in the second season. Still, she was interesting and it might have made a good TCW episode if she returned. The actress did well with what she had to do, and there was some spark there.

[Brandyjane]

I don't have any problem with Archer having occasional one-night-stands. He's away from Earth for months or years at a time and as the captain he really shouldn't mess around with anyone on his crew. I realize there are lots and lots of men out there who do without sex for really long periods of time in real life, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge a fictional captain if he met a cute alien chick and hooked up for some no-regrets fun.

I remember Archer mentioning a girl who broke up with him after he finished Starfleet training, and of course there's Erika, but is there any canon reason why he couldn't have another serious relationship between the two? I was trying to write something that would flesh out his background a little more - make him more than just Henry Archer's son - and I wondered whether he could have an ex-wife or a dead wife. I realize nothing on screen supports that, but does anything flat out contradict it?

[Aquarius]

I don't recall anything that would contradict that, no. And I think it would definitely be an interesting take on Archer's back story!

[honeybee]

Run with it, Brandyjane -

Now that I think about it, since Archer was so bad at relationships, maybe Feezal Phlox should have hit on him instead of traditional-minded Trip. Archer could have gotten laid without having to worry about sustaining a relationship. Phlox wouldn't have minded. It seems that Archer's relationships always went south because of his dedication to his career, if he had been born a Denobulan or an Andorian - it might have worked out for him.

[Aquarius]

Or maybe a Deltan!

[Silverbullet]

I believe that the Archer character could have had a Love interest but the writers wrote themselves in to a corner in Season two. They tried AinT and it didn't work out but they did not completely bury it. In Azati Prime they brogut it back a litlle. In the Vulcan arc there was also a stab at it. T'Pol hung like the "Sword of Democles" over the series. They finally setled on Trip but I doubt if everyone liked that. Ptiy that a lovely Femalle First Officer could not hve been assigned from the beginning to give Archer someone to at least have a platonic relationsip with or a little intimacy on the sly. Or she could be one he chases but cannot catch. Keeps his interst though.

[Brandyjane]

Ptiy that a lovely Femalle First Officer could not hve been assigned from the beginning to give Archer someone to at least have a platonic relationsip with or a little intimacy on the sly. Or she could be one he chases but cannot catch. Keeps his interst though.

They needed another female main character. If I was in charge of creating the series, I would have turned Travis Mayweather into Mayweather "May" Travis and given her a personality like that of Zoe in Firefly but without the combat skills. She and Archer would never actually cross the line during the series, but it would be clear they cared for each other deeply.

[honeybee]

It's interesting. In the RW book - Travis has been replaced by a female - whose frankly a way more interesting character and is friends with Hoshi. No tension with Archer, though. Yet. (Are you lurking Michael Martin? You can steal that.)

[Alelou]

Well, according to "Twilight" he proposed to Margaret Mullin after he graduated from flight training, and she turned him down.

[Brandyjane]

Thanks for jogging my memory, Alelou. That's the scene I was trying to remember. Was that the information Archer shares with T'Pol so that he'd believe her when she told him the truth about what was going on every day? If it was, I think there's room for more women in his background. Lot's of people would know if he'd had a wife, fiance, or other serious girlfriend, but a private person like Archer probably wouldn't go around telling a lot of people that he'd had a rejected marriage proposal. Archer's old enough that flight training should have been many years in his past, so I think he could have had someone else in his life between Margret and Erika. Do we consider the English girl from the deleted scene to be canon? I haven't seen that scene.

[Alelou]

Yeah, that's Margaret. They didn't exactly say why he told her -- he asks her why the hell he would tell her that and that was where that "our relationship has evolved over time" line comes in. (I guess it would have to evolve very quickly over the course of one day. )

My vote is that any scene not shown on screen ain't canon unless you want it to be canon.

And sure, there are plenty of other people he could fit into his life.

He also told Hoshi about passing a note to some girl in high school who was only interested in him after he got in trouble, if I remember correctly. But I wouldn't assume that meant anything. I think they were just trying to calm each other's nerves.

[Silverbullet]

I think that in a couple episods it would have been better had theyallowed Trip to be the Hero. When the Vulcan ship in the Expanse radioed that it was in trouble and had Engine problems It shoulhd have be Trip who went over to it along with T'Pol not Archer. There was no indication that anythinng was wrong on the ship or that the vulcans were zombies. Yet Archer goes over with a small team of MAACOs. Of course in the episode T'Pol goes bonkers and Archer has to save her and in the process blows up the Vulcan ship. Trip is supposed to be gathering TD ore. That shold have been the duty of one of the Science section people.

anyway, it shold have been trip that went with T'Pol to that Vulcan shp. But whoever it was just couldn't let up on super Archer the Hero. There was no room for any other character to have an episode of herorics.

In the Vulcan Arc Trip had been on Vulcan, knew its gravity and atmosphere, T'Pol's Mother. Archer was supposed to stay on the Enterprise to lead the HUman side of the investigation in to the Bombing of the Earth Embassy. Archer deserted his post. He had no business going with T'Pol. It should have been Trip.

I think that was a mistake. I would have appreciated Archer far more if I had seen a little less of him. Dole out the goodies. Make them want more by giving them less. Too much Archer and the viewers get bored withthe character.

Frankly I watched Enterprise to see the other characters by the third season.

What gets me is that it was obvious from the success of the oother series that an Ensemble series wouldd work better and draw more viewers.

I watched TOS for Spock, Mccoy, Scotty. TNG for Riker,Data, Geordi. I especially liked the Arcs with data and his eveil twin brother. I liked DS9 because Sisko was a single parent with a Teen Son. There was Quark who was good and bad by turns but people got involved with the character. Kira who I really liked and was sad when the Priest she was invoved with got killed off. Bashir, Garak, Dax all intresting and developed. Voyager because Janeway met with her Senior Offices in the conference room discussed problems got their input and often folllowed thier adivce. The Doctor of curse, Paris and torres. Neelix I loathed. Kes and chaokty. Those series all worked to a degree and had at least sven seasons. Because they had many characters which were deveolped and interesting.

Ent had none of this. I rememberred "Strange New World" where Connor was given his head and he chewed up the scenery. Great performance. In cease fire I thought he was what a Captain should be when he was in commmand of the Enterprise. Why wasn't Conner used to more effect. I believe it would have made the series more interesting to viewers.

[Thot]

I know there are times when he treated them poorly ("Cogenitor!") , but I always got the impression that he would storm the gates of Hell for the people he cared about.

Well, the problem - besides the Super hero aura the writers far too often tried to enforce - is that he has these strong inconsistencies in his character.

As an example: Which of these three statements fits to Archer?

The safety of his crew is paramount. -> You could already refer to the 3rd season with the very extrem circumstances, but just look at the episode 'Dedalus', where he acts completely irresponiceable because of his personal bound to Ericson and threatens Trip with insubordination charges, as he gets this pointed out.
Duty and following orders is the most important thing. -> Well, jeopardizing your career in stealing a warp drive prototyp against direct orders rules this one out.
You can't be captain without moral integraty! -> Just look at season 3 (cloning, torture, piracy etc.)

My problem doesn't lie in facing these concepts with all the shortcummings on your side when you face them; it's the completely absence of reflection on many decisions on Archer's site although they stand in contrast to former patterns of behaviour.

Therefore 3rd season Archer is the best one (plus Civilization and Home as other season episodes).

Other Star Trek captains could be at least roughly characterized by a single sentence like Kirk (the cowboy with the huge sense for justice), Picard (the diplomate, who has to face the moral decisions and their concrete consequences), Sisko (the builder, who wants to give Bajor a future) and Janeway (the family patron, who wants to bring her people home). I know: far from perfect but at least a good hint.

In Archer case though, no matter how hard I try, I can't think of a sentence for him.

A thing which crossed my mind: Did Archer ever change his mind concerning something because T'Pol made a different advice? I mean really change because of her different opinion of the matter and not just because of additional information she provides or it comes down to issues of trust.
The only time I can think of is in 'Breaking the Ice' where she says something like he has a free mind and therefore has the freedom to ask the Vulcan captain for help to rescue Malcolm and Travis. But the irony is that these words were actually Trip's from a few scene before.

How bizarre is this if you don't let yourself get convince a single time by your First Officer in the run of the whole series?