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Three problems: The chain of Command was (or should have ben) established when the Enterprise was first crewed. T'Pol was NOT a member of the crew.

Second, Enterprise was a human ship officered and crewed by Humans. T'Pol is not human.

Tird, T'Pol is aserving Officr in a foreign military she could not legally be assigned as first Officer without resigning from the VHC and then joining Starfleet.

Unfortunately TPTB ignored all of that. Fact is, legallyy T'Pol could never be first Officrr in any season: One and two she is an Officer in the VHC, third she s a civiian not a member of Starfleet or the VHC and NO civilian can be FO and in command of a militry ship (which enterprise was) in the fourth season shhe joined Starfleet and commisioned a full commander. However, she would be junior Commander. Trip would have time in service and time in grade on her and be Senior Commander on board and FO.

As I say TPTB ignored all of that as they ignored so many other things.

@SB:

Enterprise is IMHO not a military ship. The MACO's are military. In "The Expanse" Admiral Forrest is surprised that Archer is comfortable with military on board. Strictly speaking Enterprise is a scientific vessel that happens to possess weapons for self-defense.

Yes, SB... but they still had to have their own Chain of Command - however unrealistic it might be. The fact that she shouldn't have been XO doesn't change the fact that she was.

Like your idea though, Kotik, about Foster being #7... though figuring out which order Sato and Mayweather actually are would be interesting. Would Sato be #6 for being on probation - per "Observer Effect" - when she was recommissioned, or would she be #5 because you want the last person put in charge to be your pilot, who should be consintrating on driving, not running things?

Oh, and where would Hayes fit in? Even though a Major would be considered an O-4 by todays military and an LT an O-3.... and Commanders 0-5....

They wear univorms have military Rank, Archer always says "that is an Order" Obviousll TPTB threw that bit about Maacos being military so they could have T'Pol as FO and be a civilian.

GR said he modeled the Enterprise series on the U.s. Navy. He meant the Enterprise and its crew to be Military. In all of the series the cast wore Uniforms had military Rank.

In Enterprise Hoshi says she was given a "Bad conduct discharge" from Starfleet. that is Military. So Starfleet is Military and the E nterprise is military. I believe in TOS Kirk is court martialed. that too is Military. Archer is commanding Officer As the head of a scientific ship. He might be called Captain as an honorary title, but not Commanding Officer.

As KTR says "If it looks like a Duck, waddles like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, it is a Duck."

Enterprise was a military ship.

Now dear a duck can deny its a duck. Home Erika says she's not sure she wants "MILITARY PERSONEL ON MY BRIDGE" no matter what the duck looks like, if it says it isn't a duck, you're not going to convince it it is. After the Xindi conflict Starfleet starts the transition into a military of the mid-22nd century onward. But before that, it is NOT a military. And therefore entitled to be all muddled.

I'm not going to rehash my Starfleet is a military argument for the gazillionth time...

But even assuming Starfleet is not a military organization (which I dispute, but whatever), they would still need a proper chain of command. The police needs one, the Coast Guard needs one, the FBI needs one, the... well, you get the picture.

I never said it wasn't stupid, I never said it made sense, I never even said I liked the setup... But according to not less than five episodes of ENT Starfleet considers itself apart from the military. Its completely stupid. And yeah they did need a chain of command, and they had one... Just a weird one. But hey none of us smart people wrote it. Unless... OK whose the disguised member of TPTB lurking around here? Reveal yourself!

We fans often seem to obsess over the details far more than the people who write the stories...

So true.

Jumping back to post one, Zabel (Security) is definitely a crewman. You see his uniform clearly at one point and he has no rank at all, not even the Crewman 2nd or 3rd class stuff that Rostov & Cutler & Novakovich wear. I had to look that up myself...

Rigil Kent wrote:Jumping back to post one, Zabel (Security) is definitely a crewman. You see his uniform clearly at one point and he has no rank at all, not even the Crewman 2nd or 3rd class stuff that Rostov & Cutler & Novakovich wear. I had to look that up myself...

Thanx for the info, i'll update the list
Hopefully some more people have such a keen eye and we can fill some more of the gaps.

I am in awe of people who can see that. I mean TNG's pips were easy to see on the uniforms, but to tell you the truth I can barely make out the rank insignias on the other Trek uniforms, I didn't watch DS9 so that doesn't count.

That's what Memory Alpha is for. First time around, I did not notice that sort of thing. Sort of like how I didn't realize until Memory Alpha that the crewman ranks that Rostov & Novakovich & Cutler were different.

Well yeah I knew that there was a list. But sometimes the costume department forgets that stuff. So Memory-Alpha says one thing and your TV screen says another. In any case I'm still in awe of people who can keep enlisted ranks straight. I admit it, its not a gift I possess even with half my family in the Navy or Air Force... No wait... Army too. I just never got the hang of it. Kind of like math... OK I depressing myself.

Enlisted ranks, Officer ranks, that is military.

Military being sent on sientific exxporlation is hitoricaly correct. Cook's voyages aboard a royal Navy ship and he was a royal Nvy Officer. Lewis and Clark. That was a military expedition sent for scientific discovery and diplomatic purposes but the entire corps of Discovery wre Army personell. Enterprise as a milittary ship sent out on sientific exploration and Diplomatic purposes is logical. That way you can have Scientific and military all in the same ship.

Sb