Andorian Reproductive Biology

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Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Distracted » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:29 pm

Two recent comments on stories involving Andorians and their supposed unique reproductive biology prompted me to make this post. I found this on the “Star Trek online Geekipedia”:

Andorians are able to reproduce only for 5 years after puberty; they are unique for having completely retractable sexual organs and 4 sexes; the males Chan and Thaan each have ¼ of the chromosomes; the female Shen has 1/2 of the chromosomes and a transfering organ for the female Zhen who carries the pregnancy within a marsupial like pouch with four teats inside it to nurture the embryo. Twins, triplets and quadruplets were more common in ancient times.
Females are generally taller than males and sexually much more aggressive. All subspecies are sexually and genetically totally compatible between themselves... but, because of their unique ghelnoid biology and reproductive mode, not at all with other humanoids... unless drastic and complex genetic manipulation would be involved in the manufacture and developpement of the embryo.


For my round robin installment I fudged a little, since Shran is obviously more than 5 years past puberty and thus would be sterile according to this, but otherwise I tried to take it all into account as I wrote.

Does anyone know where all this stuff came from? Is it fanon? Maybe from novels? Because I’m pretty sure I’ve seen practically every episode of ST featuring Andorians and it was the first I’d heard of it.

Anyway, after reading all of that I got to thinking about how “quads” would form. I would think that Andorian youngsters would date in gangs just like our younger kids do, but instead of pairing off they’d form groups of four. So the usual pattern would be four partners of roughly the same age who meet at puberty or just before (or more traditionally are introduced by their respective families in an arranged marriage), set up housekeeping right after puberty, have their kids, and then leave the kids with the childbearing/childrearing parent (the female Zhen) and go their separate ways. They remain mates for life, but they don’t cohabitate for life.

If Andorians remained single into adulthood their choices would be more limited and they might pair off with a lover but be stuck without offspring unless the lovers as a pair continued to “date” to find compatible spouses. The female Zhens would likely be scarce off planet since they’re the ones that traditionally bear and raise the children. That was my thought, anyway. Andorians might pair off initially just for sex, but a more permanent and stable family would require more effort. In my story I’m thinking that Jhamel is a Zhen. She seems so nurturing and non-warlike compared to someone like Talas who I see as more the Shen type.

As far as the mechanics go, I’m not sure what the difference between the two male-type sexes would be. If they both contribute 25% of the genetic material then they’d both have to have the same equipment in order to impregnate the Shen. Maybe it’s a personality thing. Perhaps each quad has an alpha and a beta male, one to go out and make war and one to stay home and protect/nurture the kids. And the difference is so pronounced genetically that the two look different or smell different or “feel” different in some way when tlasped (that’s the term for sensing with antennae) and so are identified as different sexes.

Anyway, the Shen in turn would have to have both receptive equipment and insertive equipment (possibly different in structure from the males) in order to first get pregnant and then to transfer the embryo to the Zhen. This could be explained evolutionarily I guess by the fact that during war time someone’s got to stay home and raise the babies and somebody’s got to fight. If both males and the Shen are all off to war then the Shen can get pregnant right there on the battlefield, run home to bring messages, get supplies, and transfer the embryo to the Zhen, and then go back, leaving both males free to concentrate on fighting and the babies safe at home. It works.

Psychologically what it would mean would be that Andorian males would be warlike and attracted mostly to strong and tough females (the Shen type), although perhaps the beta males might have a stronger paternal/home-making instinct and be more protective of and attracted to the Zhen. The Shen would normally be bisexual and possessed of a strong need to wander, and the Zhen would be nurturing, maternal, and generally also attracted mostly to strong and tough females. : )

So, since I see Shran as an alpha male, both Shran and Jhamel in my story are unusual Andorians in that they’re attracted to each other and not to someone like Talas, the type of partner that both of them traditionally would be most attracted to. I can see them having a tough time finding another couple to complete their quad because they need a beta male and a Shen, a non-traditional combination. Too bad Talas is dead. They’d both adore her. : )

Any comments on my logic? Anybody disagree or have anything to add?
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:46 pm

The notion of four Andorian sexes is fanon that creeped into some of the novels. The only canon reference is from, I think, a TNG episode that mentioned that Andorians marry in fours. That doesn't necessarily mean that there would be four genders, but fans went with that idea anyway.

Here is one of the most exhaustive fan dissertations on Andorians and their culture. I don't know how, or even if, this corresponds with what's been in the novels.
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Aikiweezie » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:29 pm

Oh my, the whole idea gives me a headache. :duh:

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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Distracted » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:45 am

Interesting. But it specifically contradicts the four-gender idea.
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Silverbullet » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:17 pm

In the Enterprise series Shran tells Archer that Talas was his first officer and she presdented a problem. He could either have her court martialed or mate with her. He chose to mate with her.

Later in another Episode after she had died Shran says that she had chosen him that she was from a wealthy, prominent family but she had chosen Him to be her mate.

That realy sounds much like humans and Vulcans. Not quads or foursomes to mate and makke babies. It sounded more like Shran and Talas had made a life long commitment to one another.
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby aadarshinah » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:33 pm

In the series, I don't think it's ever specifically mentioned the number of genders Andorians had, though in one of the relaunch books - The Good That Men Do, I think it was - makes mention of it. Until then, with the TNG reference to four Andorians make a marriage, I'd always assumed it was a group or line marriage sort of thing a la The Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Time Enough For Love. But, depending on what you take as cannon, it really can go either way...

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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby crystalswolf » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:49 pm

I agree with Aadarshinah. If you're looking for canon, the universe is your oyster... as long as you have 4 of them in the marriage.

Silverbullet, personally I think the term "mate" makes sense for the quad. If you're going to have 4 of them, either the terms describing the relationships between them become more complicated with names for each, or it is simplified for ease of use and relies on implied meaning "my 3 mates" or something like that. Now, if he said the word "wife" (can't remember if he did) that would put a slight monkey-wrench in it... but only slight.

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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Rigil Kent » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:43 pm

Wait ... are you trying to apply real-life science to Trek, Dis? Why? It very rarely makes much sense (look at the Vulcans - a species that evolves with copper-based blood, on a high-gravity planet, low-oxygen content, very bright planet likely isn't going to look a thing like Tolkien elves - dwarves maybe, but probably with really weird eyes.) I just took the quad thing as another one of those "sure, whatever" things that set Trek more in the science-fantasy/space opera realm than the sci-fi one...
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Grrr » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:46 pm

I'm currently reading the Deep Space Nine Mission: Gamma books. These deal with Andorian reproduction. While I haven't read it yet, I bet Cardassia and Andor (Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Vol. 1) would also be useful.

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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Distracted » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:03 pm

Rigil Kent wrote:Wait ... are you trying to apply real-life science to Trek, Dis?
Of course I am. I always do. It makes things more interesting to try to come up with a consistent framework for all this stuff, and I get frustrated when I can't. That's why I hate the idea of unassisted interspecies reproduction so much. I need this stuff to make sense. I'd probably be frantic if I truly understood enough physics to understand how impossible all the engineering technobabble is, but it generally doesn't bother me as much because I'm blessedly ignorant. The inconsistent biological and medical concepts, on the other hand... :bitch:

I need to know WHY. :roll:

I know. I'm doomed to disappointment. :?
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Silverbullet » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:11 pm

Good Point Rigel. Since there was always a limited budget making an Alien was confined to Nose and Forehead more or less. That being the case making an Alien more alien would have to be in the realm of things like reproduction, marriage, customs, traidtions. Hence Pon Farr for the Vulcans, Violence for the Klingons and Quards for the Andorians. That would set them apart. In Star Trek all (that I kow of) were humanoind in their body. Head, trunk, Arms with hands at the end containing fingers on each hand with opposible thumbs. Legs, feet.

In Star Wars they had much more money and could have real Aliens types. Remeber the Bar in the First Star Wars. Lots of Alien looking aliens. Still they too were Humanoid in thier body structure.

I always had a sneaky wish that one of the aliens could change Sex when needed. Like a type of Fish found on Earth. Male becomes Female and vice versa. Wouldn't that be something if T'Pol would change Sex on Trip.
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Distracted » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:23 pm

I did that in one of my stories, actually. Not T'Pol, though. It was Isis and Gary Seven. Isis made the switch to make Gary happy, since he was gay. I got some interesting comments. 8)
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Silverbullet » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:30 pm

Used to be a commercial whose theme was "I would rather switch than fight." I guess Isis might fall in that category.
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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby Asso » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:42 pm

Personally I don't take the relaunch books as Canon.
To be honest, I take the relaunch books less than The Abomination. 8)
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But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.

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Re: Andorian Reproductive Biology

Postby aadarshinah » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:14 am

My own last thought on the subject is this (and an attempt to give Kotik thread-action - god, :? that came out wrong :oops: ). Anyway:

1) we know because of the "Cogenitor" episode that, in the Star Trek universe, at least, it is possible for an intelligent humanoid species with more than the usual two (male/female) sexes to evolve into a spacefaring society.

2) back on earth, there are certain species of insects (some ants, bees, and other assorted) in which the females carry a full pair of chromosomes and males only one set, dervived entirely from the mother. Ergo, the males have 1/2 the DNA the females have.

So, I suppose it is possible for something like 4 sexes to arrise, provided "full DNA-ed" Andorians had something like 4 sets of each of their chromosomes: one from the chaan "male" parent, one from the thaan "male" parent, one from the shen "female" parent, and one from the zhen "female" parent - but only if the impregnation occured in the zhen.

Bear with me.

In this wonderful little world I'm imagining, the zhen would carry an "egg" capable of being fertilized by any combination of "sperm" from the other three sexes. This egg would contribute it's genetic material to all of the quad's future children, irregardless of gender. If this "egg" was fertilized by a chaan or thaan "sperm," you get a baby chaan or thaan respectively. If this "egg" is fertilized by all four members, you get a baby shen. If this "egg" is fertilized by only the shen, you get a baby zhen. A non-fertilized "egg" yeilds no child.

Or:

Chaan + Zhan = Chaan (with 50% of the quad's total genetic idenity; each chaan has only 2 sets of chromosomes)
Thaan + Zhan = Thaan (with 50% of the quad's total genetic idenity; each thaan has only 2 sets of chromosomes)
Shen + Zhan = Zhan (with 50% of the quad's total genetic idenity; each zhan has only 2 sets of chromosomes)
Chaan + Thaan +Shen + Zhan = Shen (with 100% of the quad's total genetic idenity; each shen has all 4 sets of chromsomes)

Genetically speaking, I suppose this could work and might be a useful evolutionary trait if it is difficult for zhan to concieve, as it ups the anti on things. Of course, in this version shen would not be "females" in the traditional sense, but might take on other secondary sexual charectorstics that humans would consider female, such as breasts, that would be used in the rearing of any child the quad might have - a benifit of the extra chromosomes. But, since we know sex-based-off-of-number-of-chromosomes can work - id est, the Order Hymenoptera - I suppose it is possible.

It might even explain the antennae....


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