Thoughts on Koss?

[Rigil Kent]

I have read those fics and, while I generally like them, there are a number of things he did throughout that didn't really sit right for me, but that's neither here nor there, I think.

One problem... I don't get how that is consistent with the character given the fact that... He was willing to let her go back to the humans, (and Trip) and gave up the first year of living together rule when T'Pol negotiated with the family. Since you assert he has "all the power" in this mess, why should he offer to do any of this?

You ever fished? I see it as similar to that. He gives her a little space, lets her get accustomed to the marriage that she was so opposed to, then applies pressure that "requires" her presence back on Vulcan (possibly lacing it with a subtle threat toward T'Pol's mom's position.) This would especially be the case when he starts to hear the Vulcan equivalent of gossip about his marriage with that weird daughter of T'Les. So yeah, while I don't see Koss as an evil sociopath in the beginning, I can certainly see him turning dark as time passes and T'Pol does her usual passive aggressiveness that drove Trip (and me) insane.

[WarpGirl]

I didn't like all of the things in New World Man either, but still cool.

Have I ever fished?????? Heck yes!!!! My grandfather was a professional fisherman, I grew up doing it. So I can say with some authority that Koss is a cruddy fisherman. First rule if you get a good bite REEL IT IN! Not only does Koss fail to do that, by offering her, her career and potentially her human lover, but he lets her stay in a monestary at MT. Seleya for TWO WEEKS, after the wedding. So if Koss is a fisherman he'll starve...

[panyasan]

Vulcans take their time. If you want to force some one in a certain position of acceptance, the best way to do this is little by little. First you show your nice side, telling the other person you are not so bad. Then step by step you move that person gently into your direction (for all the good reasons of course) untill you have him/her were you wanted them. I don't know if Koss had all planned strategy to bend T'Pol back into the Vulcan mold, but I can see him planning to win her sympathy first as a first step.

[Asso]

He searched for a very unsympathetic way to do that, don't think you?

[WarpGirl]

Not always. Sometimes its a bad idea to go slow. It was cetainly completely illogical to do so in this case. Koss isn't stupid he KNEW there was something going on with Trip so explain to me how it was logical to let her go back to Enterprise if the goal was to make T'Pol a "proper Vulcan wife?" Allowing her to go back to her lover offers a greater incentive for her to stay away from her lawful husband. Koss couldn't know Trip would not be willing to be romantically involved with a married woman. I doubt he knew T'Pol well enough to know whether she would be faithful to him. After all with all the customs she's broken and the public trouble she's had the logical odds are she wouldn't. So nope that still makes no sense to me.

[panyasan]

He searched for a very unsympathetic way to do that, don't think you?

I meant he let her meditate after the wedding and return to Enterprise. I don't know if it was very smart from his point of view, but forcing T'Pol more then she already had been (and I can imagine T'Pol making her dislike and desire to go back to Enterprise very clear) certainly wasn't.

[WarpGirl]

OK I agree on the meditation thing, but the rest of it... Makes no sense. That's not a good fisherman. It does nothing to make marriage more appealing. And threatening her mother again is also very stupid, what else can they do? Considering later she hauls off to the forge and Koss helps with that... Wait why don't we just say he has multiple personalities. Then everything makes sense, he's nuts!

[Asso]

How many things were shown by a guy who appeared on screen just, if I am not mistaken, two times; and in both the circumstances only in order to enlighten T'Pol's inner turmoil.
I don't understand (and maybe I am repetitive): but why must we descant about Koss? He was nothing else than a mere artifice.

[Rigil Kent]

You also need to take into account the Vulcan opinion of humanity at the time. From Koss' perspective, it's perfectly logical to let her go back to the short-lived, short-attention span human she's apparently enamored with. Given Tucker's reputation at this point (Ah'lenn and then inevitably Fishstick), it would make perfect sense if Koss simply believed Tucker would see something alien, female and shiny, and totally lose interest in T'Pol, which would force her to admit that a prurient interest in humans is illogical. That is, if Tucker doesn't go and get himself killed first. The longest human relationship is a pretty short one in Vulcan eyes, after all.

Or we can just admit it's sloppy writing and they hadn't thought that far ahead because honestly? Hollywood very rarely does think that far ahead with their plots.

[WarpGirl]

But what does Koss really know about humans? It didn't seem like he was a guy who knew many or even left Vulcan. Also how do we know that all Vulcans thought about humans at all, let alone had the same viewpoints as the Vulcan High Command? V'Lar was very open to humans, more than Soval was at that point. I kind of doubt that an average Vulcan (which Koss seemed to be despite his father's position) would really care all that much to form an opinion on humanity. Koss actually seemed to try and be interested in T'Pol's life with humans. In any case Koss wouldn't know anything about "Trip's reputation." But really does rock girl count?

[Asso]

Uhm... it seems that this is become a sort of private conversation. And pretty "peculiar", I must say.

Is it possible that EK wasn't mistaken?

[Alelou]

OK I agree on the meditation thing, but the rest of it... Makes no sense. That's not a good fisherman. It does nothing to make marriage more appealing. And threatening her mother again is also very stupid, what else can they do? Considering later she hauls off to the forge and Koss helps with that... Wait why don't we just say he has multiple personalities. Then everything makes sense, he's nuts!

It all can make sense if you believe this was being created as a political alliance, not a real marriage. I just wish I believed the writers had actually thought ahead that far themselves.

[panyasan]

I like to think it wasn't a real marriage (yet). Not if you take into account Vulcan customs (the living together for a year) and the general idea of a marriage, in Vulcan and Earth. Also, the ceremony is annuled, if it was a real, lawfull marriage, it would have been a divorce. (This is one of my own favorite pet thought. )

[Silverbullet]

I think it was annuled because it was not consumated. Had it ben then a divorce.

I thought that T-pol indicated that she slipped away right after the Ceremony to the retreat and that Koss didn't know about it and where she was. she somehow managed to get back to Enterprise. Trip being a good Southern Gentleman wouldn't mess with a married woman no matter how he felt about her. He told T'Les that he Loved T'Pol. He obbviously never told T'Pol that.

[panyasan]

In old cultures a marriage became a marriage after it had been consumated. Public cermony plus big party (food!) plus bride and groom slept together means marriage. Hence my thought.