Older women, younger men

[Distracted]

BnB and I have gotten some responses to the most recent installment of Lerteiran that have gotten me thinking. A couple of the commenters have expressed a distrust of one of the characters based at least partially on the fact that he is romantically pursuing a woman who is much older than he is. Admittedly, the character IS an undercover operative by profession, and so his motives should probably always be suspect, but the younger man/older woman thing seems to be what everyone is suspicious about.

I would have thought that in this crowd the idea of an older woman and a younger man together wouldn't be as shocking, considering the fact that we're all here obsessing over just such a couple. But she doesn't LOOK like she's in her sixties, now does she?

So, here's the topic I'm putting out for discussion. Do you think that if T'Pol had actually looked her age from a human point of view (or if she hadn't been fashion-model gorgeous) would Trip still have developed an interest in her? Are there personality characteristics that might make some men overlook a woman's outward age and appearance and actually look at what's on the inside, or is the attraction always entirely physical?

What about the younger woman/older man situation? Why is that more accepted? And does the younger partner necessarily have to have mercenary motives?

[crystalswolf]

I know women tend to have a certain level of attraction for men because of physical characteristics but when they get to know them, the level changes. I don't know if this happens with men because it seems visual stimulation is VERY important.

As for younger woman/older man, I think people still feel uncomfortable about it but have been so desensitized over the years that people have learned to look away.

Also, looks play an important part for observers of the relationship. How many women have swooned over the Bella/Edward relationship? She was 16(?) and he was 90(?) but it was okay because he as introduced as a teen-looking vamp? Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike , Xander/Anya, etc.

[Aquarius]

I'm inclined to think that physical attractiveness is what got Trip's attention first--look at her, it would be hard for him not to notice. However, if she were just a vapid Barbie doll, I don't think he would've paid attention for long. The looks got him to notice, but the brains and personality are what kept him there.

If she looked her age by human standards...? Hard to say. A lot of factors come into play with that. What if she was in her 60s in the biological sense in that she was most likely past child-bearing age, and Trip wanted a family some day? That would be a deal-breaker, so it would be unlikely a guy in that position would pursue a woman that much older than him. If he didn't care about having kids, then her stock just went up.

Honestly, in this day and age, I don't know why your readers are making such a big deal about it. I thought cougars were the new "it" girls right now?

[crystalswolf]

Honestly, in this day and age, I don't know why your readers are making such a big deal about it. I thought cougars were the new "it" girls right now?

[Distracted]

Oddly enough, I don't think there would be as many protests if I had portrayed her as the aggressor, cougar-fashion. It's the fact that she's reluctant and he's pursuing that seems to be setting things off. Like the readers can't see a non-nefarious reason why a younger and attractive man might pursue an older woman. Am I off-base with my characterization? Can anyone see a male character from a female-dominated society behaving this way?

[Aquarius]

If he's from a female-dominated society, then in terms of a non-nefarious explanation, one might think it's backlash from repression--he's away from his environment so now he has the freedom to "act out"--not necessarily in a bad way, but if the women in his society were traditionally the aggressors, he may enjoy turning the tables and find the prospect of "catching" an older woman pretty hot.

[Asso]

I don't want to go deep in this sort of issue, frankly I think it is a minefield.
Nevertheless, allow me to say three things:
First.
There are things which don't change.
Second.
As for the relationship between Trip and T'Pol, the dominant model in the show was the western model and I am persuaded that a different model wouldn't have been welcome.
Third.
I am a man , and - usually - men watch, at first, and, ONLY successively (maybe), they think.
And, honestly, I think it will be forever like this.

[WarpGirl]

Hey Dis I admit I got really confused trying to read the story in the first chapter so I haven't kept up. Please don't hate me... Personally, I don't find the concept of older/younger relationships creepy in general. My issue with them comes when it seems based on sex and nothing more. I admit I find older women/younger men more suspect just a little because women and men usually need to have they're emotional needs met in different ways and when a regluar human woman is old enough to be a man's mother, I wonder how they (especially the man) balance out those intellectual and emotional needs. Because let's face it statistically its usually women who develop faster in that regard.

As for older men/younger women it's been accepted since the dawn of man. It might be something instinctual for humanity now. Doesn't mean the same issues I brought up in a "cougar" situation don't exist there.

As for TnT well as a Vulcan physiologically she isn't 62-66. I know bad medical science. However I'm not sure Trip would actively pursue her if she was only because he probably wouldn't think to do so. I don't see him noticing he's attracted to a woman in her 60's. If T'Pol pursued him (not like in Harbinger) I think he could fall for her.

[justTripn]

Would Trip have fallen for T'Pol if she looked 60? No.

What do I think of real life Older woman/younger men relationships? They are doomed. The woman suddenly crosses a line from hot to not and it's over. In real life, out of three relationships like this with an age difference of 15 to 20 years, two went bad and one appears to be stable. Maybe that is just par for the course and I should adjust my prejudices but . . . I can't.

[WarpGirl]

But when you consider that half of all marriges in the US fail anyway its not a shock that 1/3 of older women younger men fail. I'm not sure that's soley because of an age difference.

[justTripn]

You may be right. Actually I'm feeling guilty because I just remembered another couple in which the woman was ten years older than her husband and she was very supportive of my dating across race. She said (and I'll never forget it), "All marriages are mixed marriages if they're between a man and woman." LOL! Yeah . . that's the main diversity problem right there.

[WarpGirl]

Don't get me wrong. There are many things that I think make these relationships have the potential for massive imbalance and doom, possibly even something unhealthy. Whether it's an older woman and a younger man or an older man and younger woman. However I'm not sure that age is the defining reason in the case of many of them. And let's face it, some people just can't work out in special circumstances, I'm a special circumstance, I'm disabled. So all in all I think it comes down to the people involved if they want to make it work it will work.

[Alelou]

My parents have friends who were almost twenty years apart, with the female older (she died a couple of years ago, of old age). But I always wondered just what the deal was with them because he was one of those creepy guys -- you know, the kind where you always try to keep a piece of furniture between you. Shudder. (And he'd do the same to my mother as to me. Yechhhhhhhhh.) I used to wonder if he actually had a real relationship with his wife, or if she was just some sort of weird mommy figure? I really don't know. They never had children, but they certainly had a long marriage, and he apparently took care of her quite devotedly in the end.

You never really know what goes on in a marriage from outside.

[Silverbullet]

66 for a vulcan is young. T-Pol does look her age. She also would be in her child bearing age. Since the average life span of a Vulcan is somewhere about 200 or 200+ 66 would be young. T-Pol looks young because she is young. Can't equate HUman years to a Vulcan. If she looked old(er) she would be much older in vulcan years.

Trip loves a young woman and if they married they could have a family. T-Pol being healthy and young.

I am reminded of what Ben Franklin said about Older women and youn men "They are so Grateful"

[Asso]

Could this old saying sound a little too much masculinist?
If she's older, you must fear her.
If she's younger, you must love her.