VOY Haters and Lovers Talk Here!

[WarpGirl]

I think I've read every VOY book up to Endgame, except Pathways. I don't know how I missed it. I'll put it on my winter reading list.

Like I said I understand that B'Elanna was infatuated with Chakotay. But with the age gap and her past, it isn't a creepy thing, but it's not something that would last. I'm pretty sure Persistence of Vision was before Day of Honor.

Chakotay was never sexually attracted to B'Elanna. It just would have never worked out.

I admit Tom Paris is my ULTIMATE fantasy. He's my favorite trek character by far, and I am completely biased. But I also have great affection for all of VOY, and that's another reason why the P/T relationship, and the aborted J/C relationship is important to me.

I deny the C/7 because I still say it was the B's way of punishung Robert Beltran for fighting to make his character bi-sexual or gay. There was no build up and no chemistry.
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As for why I am such a rabid P/Ter here's my post from the "greatest trek experience thread..."

It was 1997 and after 3 breathless seasons of cheering on the Federation Starship Voyager I was finally gonna have my moment. and were actually going to get together FOR REAL my one semi-trekkie sister had been tormenting me for the past 3 years saying "not gonna happen" but I held firm to the implacible faith that the moment would arrive. I had too, my entire emotional make up was depending on it to get me through the next 10 years...

You see I was a very sick and very angry young girl: Covered in surgical scars, and no self esteem and the only thing going for me was a brain that could have gotten me out of school before 18 had I been healthy. But what boy wants a girl covered in scars, possibly smarter than him, and well, a raging lunatic most of the time? Well wanted and yeah while it is TV it gave an 11 year old hope. Hope that maybe one day if I live long enough, a handsome funny guy won't care that I'm covered in scars, or smarter than him, or that I'm a raging lunatic. Maybe just maybe I could have a "helmboy" of my very own who wouldn't mind my "big scary klingon side."

Well I got it! Courtesy of Alelou's episode. Which I proceeded to tape and watch so many times the tape wore out. And lord did I crow to my sister about it, I drove her up the wall! And of course declared that there would now be a wedding and a baby. (I was gonna have it all!) And needless to say in 2001 my 15 year old self cried tears of joy when that Trek moment came true too.

As for my hope that "one day my Pilot will come" well... It hasn't worked out the way I had planned. The Sith detour almost killed the hope. But hey, I'm still alive. And I'm quite stubborn. And my "big scary Klingon side," my scars, and my brain haven't gone anywhere so... I'm still waiting.

2nd and 3rd Runners up. Finding HoT then Here!

[marchale]

I think I've read every VOY book up to Endgame, except Pathways. I don't know how I missed it. I'll put it on my winter reading list.

Like I said I understand that B'Elanna was infatuated with Chakotay. But with the age gap and her past, it isn't a creepy thing, but it's not something that would last. I'm pretty sure Persistence of Vision was before Day of Honor.

Chakotay was never sexually attracted to B'Elanna. It just would have never worked out.

I admit Tom Paris is my ULTIMATE fantasy. He's my favorite trek character by far, and I am completely biased. But I also have great affection for all of VOY, and that's another reason why the P/T relationship, and the aborted J/C relationship is important to me.

I deny the C/7 because I still say it was the B's way of punishung Robert Beltran for fighting to make his character bi-sexual or gay. There was no build up and no chemistry.

Yeah, I had a feeling that you feel about Tom like I feel towards Trip, so I'm not surprised to hear that he's your ULTIMATE fantasy and favorite trek character by far. (Thats exactly how I feel about Trip).

And yeah, it could be their way of punishing him. I know when I first seen that Human Error episode, I thought to myself "where the hell did that come from? Were there alot of Voyager episodes I missed or something?" because I didn't think that Chakotay and Seven even had any interest in each other before then. But while I'm not a fan of C/7 at all, it didn't bother me that they had them get together because as a C/Ter - I didn't like the J/C stuff anyway - so I'm just kinda neutral about my feelings on C/7 - although it didn't do anything for me, like you said - there was no chemistry and their relationship seemed pretty bland and boring and forced like it was being staged for some stupid reason. (Though I thought maybe Braga was just trying to give Jeri more airtime and a meatier part to play on the show so Seven could express more of her humanity or whatever. I liked Seven, but (like Chakotay), I didn't often care for how her character was portrayed on the show).

[WarpGirl]

Well Tom and Trip have quite a bit in common in certain places. Tom however had tenacity. When he wanted something nothing and nobody stood in his way. And he had an intuitive understanding of how to help his woman when she was being her own worst enemy. And when he couldn't like in Extreme Risk, he still didn't run away. Something which Trip had no clue how to do. Trip is a wonderful guy, and he certainly doesn't have some of the quirks Tom had but he's not a fighter.

B'Elanna and I have so much in common, and during my tween and teen years she saved me in a lot of ways. Like I said in my post above, that relationship the trials and successes gave me hope that I would find my match. So it is extremely important to me.

[marchale]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for why I am such a rabid P/Ter here's my post from the "greatest trek experience thread..."

It was 1997 and after 3 breathless seasons of cheering on the Federation Starship Voyager I was finally gonna have my moment. and were actually going to get together FOR REAL my one semi-trekkie sister had been tormenting me for the past 3 years saying "not gonna happen" but I held firm to the implacible faith that the moment would arrive. I had too, my entire emotional make up was depending on it to get me through the next 10 years...

You see I was a very sick and very angry young girl: Covered in surgical scars, and no self esteem and the only thing going for me was a brain that could have gotten me out of school before 18 had I been healthy. But what boy wants a girl covered in scars, possibly smarter than him, and well, a raging lunatic most of the time? Well wanted and yeah while it is TV it gave an 11 year old hope. Hope that maybe one day if I live long enough, a handsome funny guy won't care that I'm covered in scars, or smarter than him, or that I'm a raging lunatic. Maybe just maybe I could have a "helmboy" of my very own who wouldn't mind my "big scary klingon side."

Well I got it! Courtesy of Alelou's episode. Which I proceeded to tape and watch so many times the tape wore out. And lord did I crow to my sister about it, I drove her up the wall! And of course declared that there would now be a wedding and a baby. (I was gonna have it all!) And needless to say in 2001 my 15 year old self cried tears of joy when that Trek moment came true too.

As for my hope that "one day my Pilot will come" well... It hasn't worked out the way I had planned. The Sith detour almost killed the hope. But hey, I'm still alive. And I'm quite stubborn. And my "big scary Klingon side," my scars, and my brain haven't gone anywhere so... I'm still waiting.

2nd and 3rd Runners up. Finding HoT then Here!

BTW, I liked hearing how you talked about this - and don't give up hoping for a helmboy of your very own someday. I can appreciate what you call your "big scary Klingon side" complete with scars, etc - having possibly the ugliest body in the world thanks to my severe psoriasis, I can relate to that. But hon, I'm here to tell you that scars and all won't mean squat when the right guy comes along. I had absolutely no interest in getting involved with anyone with my body looking the way it does, yet I fell in love a couple of years ago and all the "I don't want to get involved with anyone" feelings I had previously went right out the window and I don't think Phil could've cared less about my psoriasis. Things didn't work there between us (he died) but the point is, when the right guy comes along - superficial crap like a person's appearance isn't going to matter to him and will probably be the last thing on your mind too, really. Trust me on that.

[WarpGirl]

If there's one thing I've learned is that the scars on the soul heal slowly. I'm learning to live with mine. But like I said, VOY started when I was 10 and for 7 of the worst years of my life it gave me something special with Tom and B'Elanna.

I don't trust myself talking about my adoration of Janeway and Chakotay's bad taste in women so I'll just leave it be. I have very strong opinions on both!

[marchale]

Well Tom and Trip have quite a bit in common in certain places. Tom however had tenacity. When he wanted something nothing and nobody stood in his way. And he had an intuitive understanding of how to help his woman when she was being her own worst enemy. And when he couldn't like in Extreme Risk, he still didn't run away. Something which Trip had no clue how to do. Trip is a wonderful guy, and he certainly doesn't have some of the quirks Tom had but he's not a fighter.

B'Elanna and I have so much in common, and during my tween and teen years she saved me in a lot of ways. Like I said in my post above, that relationship the trials and successes gave me hope that I would find my match. So it is extremely important to me.

As far as Trip not being a fighter, I don't know about that. I think falling in love with a Vulcan would be the most emotionally challenging thing for a human being to do and that you'd have to have a helluva lot of guts and "fighting spirit" in you to be able to weather that kind of wear and tear on your feelings. As far as the fact that TnT's romance not working out in canon - I think that was just poor judgement on TPTB's part. I mean, look at how many fans here (myself included) who love TnT and who hated the way their relationship was handled on the show by the idiots in charge.

[WarpGirl]

Well, even not counting *the_abomination* Trip still lacks tenacity. B'Elanna tried to run after Day Of Honor, saying "I don't expect you to reciprocate" and Tom's response was, "shut up!" and kissing her right then and there until she was quite breathless.

Now that isn't something you would do with a Vulcan woman. However, Trip never had the moxie to get in T'Pol's face about their relationship at all. He NEVER told her he wanted to spend his life with her. Never even began to fight for her, at all. So in that respect he falls short IMO.

Tom always fought for B'Elanna: he fought his own demons and flaws, he fought HER demons and flaws, and he fought the major ouside pressures that got in the way. Trip didn't do any of that.

[marchale]

If there's one thing I've learned is that the scars on the soul heal slowly. I'm learning to live with mine. But like I said, VOY started when I was 10 and for 7 of the worst years of my life it gave me something special with Tom and B'Elanna.

I don't trust myself talking about my adoration of Janeway and Chakotay's bad taste in women so I'll just leave it be. I have very strong opinions on both!

Yeah, lets leave that J/C discussion alone because I too have strong feelings about that, (and we're not going to agree about that anyway - but I'm very happy to hear the Paris-Torres romance got you through a bad time in your life. Trip and T'Pol have given me a lot of comfort through difficult times too.

[WarpGirl]

Well whether with Chakotay or not, I adore Kathryn Janeway. I remember as a 10 year old waiting for the premier episode telling my mama "It's about time we had a Captain that was a woman" but more than that I just think Kate Mulgrew was a fantastic actress.

Jeri Taylor was amazing when she left, (before 7of9 invaded) I cried, she did some amazing things with VOY that just made an amazing impact on Trek. It's one of the reasons ENT totally disappointed me. Their treatment of women in general seemed like a giant leap BACK!

[marchale]

Well, even not counting *the_abomination* Trip still lacks tenacity. B'Elanna tried to run after Day Of Honor, saying "I don't expect you to reciprocate" and Tom's response was, "shut up!" and kissing her right then and there until she was quite breathless.

Now that isn't something you would do with a Vulcan woman. However, Trip never had the moxie to get in T'Pol's face about their relationship at all. He NEVER told her he wanted to spend his life with her. Never even began to fight for her, at all. So in that respect he falls short IMO.

Tom always fought for B'Elanna: he fought his own demons and flaws, he fought HER demons and flaws, and he fought the major ouside pressures that got in the way. Trip didn't do any of that.

Well, don't you think that was just very poor judgment on TPTB's part? They totally blew what could've been a fantastic relationship on screen like it has been well demonstrated in fans devotion to them. I don't know, but thats among the many reasons why I hate TPTB. It wasn't TnT's fault they had idiots handling the way their relationship was dealt with, I just loved seeing them together (and am so jealous of T'Pol you wouldn't believe); but I'm not going to argue a canon I often hated to see mishandled the way it was.

[WarpGirl]

There's a reason I write fanfic for TnT! There's also a reason why I don't write fic for P/T aside from the continuity issues of B'Elanna's age when her father left, there's nothing I think that needs fixing. It was a very real relationship, with highs and lows and they fought to make it work.

And they had bigger demons to fight IMO. They were both horribly abused as children and both convinced that something about them was completely unlovable. That's something far more difficult to overcome than mere cultural differences.

[marchale]

Well whether with Chakotay or not, I adore Kathryn Janeway. I remember as a 10 year old waiting for the premier episode telling my mama "It's about time we had a Captain that was a woman" but more than that I just think Kate Mulgrew was a fantastic actress.

Jeri Taylor was amazing when she left, (before 7of9 invaded) I cried, she did some amazing things with VOY that just made an amazing impact on Trek. It's one of the reasons ENT totally disappointed me. Their treatment of women in general seemed like a giant leap BACK!

I totally agree with you about Jeri Taylor being amazing, I'm a big fan of hers too. I think you'll love her book Pathways, it has a real sweetness about it, and I think she did the fans of Voyager a real service in writing it, I totally enjoyed reading about the lives of the characters before they came on board Voyager.

Yeah, I didn't care for the treatment of women on Enterprise either, that too is another thing I think they messed up and yet another reason why I hate TPTB.

[marchale]

There's a reason I write fanfic for TnT! There's also a reason why I don't write fic for P/T aside from the continuity issues of B'Elanna's age when her father left, there's nothing I think that needs fixing. It was a very real relationship, with highs and lows and they fought to make it work.

And they had bigger demons to fight IMO. They were both horribly abused as children and both convinced that something about them was completely unlovable. That's something far more difficult to overcome than mere cultural differences.

Really, I knew B'Elanna's dad had abandoned her and that Tom's dad had seemed like a pretty uncaring guy, but I didn't realize they were both horribly abused as kids or that both were convinced there was something completely unloveable about them, I'm sorry to hear that. I know B'Elanna felt self conscious about being half Klingon and half human, but thats all I can remember about it, sorry! Though being a P/Ter, I can sure understand why you would know alot more about them than I ever did. (And except for certain things, alot of what happened on Voyager is a memory starting to fade for me; like I said - I like Voyager too, but I'm way more interested in Enterprise than what I was in Voyager).

[WarpGirl]

This has been an obsession with me for 17 years, so yeah...

[marchale]

This has been an obsession with me for 17 years, so yeah...

Hey, don't be embarassed there, I don't think there's anything wrong with having an obsession. We're all probably obsessed or we wouldn't be spending our time here talking about fictional characters, thats all a part of being a huge fan of something. Right? Right!