Starfleet: Military Or Not?

[WarpGirl]

Well I have to say that I'd never thought this would be debated... This was one of those things I thought was like totally well known and generally accepted. Boy was I wrong. I'm quickly learning that ST fans like to argue more than SW fans, but ST fans are WAY nicer. So this came up on not one but two threads. I did some research on memory-alpha and the results are mixed. What else is new? This is expected of Trek, but I thought I'd post a link and see what other people had to say. Here's the link... http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfle ... Federation

I found this part to be the most interesting... I doctored it slightly, because well, it made more sense this way. Whoever organized the artical was well... A little less than organized. BUT NOT MINE OK!!!

In the 22nd century, Starfleet was a civilian organization which adopted many aspects of Earth's earlier military forces, even though its main role was scientific development and exploration. Ranks within Starfleet closely follow the traditions of the United States Navy and the British Royal Navy.

Starfleet officers functioned as commanders and directors of the service’s operations at all levels. The most senior officers ranks were known as Flag officer ranks. Officers holding these ranks functioned at the highest levels of command in the service. Flag officer ranks, in descending order of the chain of command, are as follows:


Prior to 2161, Starfleet was the primary space defense and exploration organization of United Earth in the early-to-mid-22nd century. The primary authority of Starfleet was referred to as either Starfleet Command or UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency) under the jurisdiction of the Command Council, and was located in the city of San Francisco, Earth. (ENT: "Broken Bow", "Terra Prime")

The primary purpose of Starfleet from its infancy was to "...seek out new life and new civilizations." and "...go boldly where no man has gone before." (This quote is attributed to Zefram Cochrane, the inventor of warp drive on Earth.) (ENT: "Broken Bow")

In 2153, following the Xindi attack on Earth and the numerous firefights that the Enterprise NX-01 had been involved in since its launch in 2151, it was determined that vessels of Starfleet would begin to carry detachments of United Earth's elite military unit, the MACOs, thus taking a step towards the unification of the Earth Starfleet and the Earth military – and of the roles of defense and exploration. (ENT: "The Expanse")

[Escriba]

Prior to 2161, Starfleet was the primary space defense and exploration organization of United Earth in the early-to-mid-22nd century. The primary authority of Starfleet was referred to as either Starfleet Command or UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency) under the jurisdiction of the Command Council, and was located in the city of San Francisco, Earth. (ENT: "Broken Bow", "Terra Prime")

Doesn't it just describe it as a military organization? If your primary objective is "defense" that makes you military (since police doesn't have that exact objective.) If to achieve defense (of your planet, in this case) you can use weapons and fire force against your enemies, that makes you even more military.

[Alelou]

KTR is going to have to cut and paste his thing again?

Look, let's say they don't seem to think they're really military, compared to those MACOs, for example.

But they're still CLEARLY military in every way that counts. The only thing they don't do is salute.

If it makes you feel better, call them quasi-military.

[WarpGirl]

Or you could say the coast gaurd I guess. But that is a little funny... IDK you could have defense as private security. But hey since when is Trek ever clear cut and simple?

[Aquarius]

They are very clearly military, otherwise they wouldn't bother with things like military ranks. They wouldn't have a "captain"...they'd have a "director" or "boss" or "Vice President in charge of Seeking Out New Life and New Civilizations" or somesuch.

The organization may have began as civilian, but it obviously didn't stay that way. Even "civilian militias" are military--they just don't answer to the federal or state governments. Starfleet vessels are clearly charged with defending their planet of origin, their solar system of origin, and "partner" worlds both before and after the official formation of the UFP.

And you don't need to read the behind-the-scenes books on the making of TOS (though the information is there for the reading) to see that Starfleet's structure has always been more or less based on the U.S. Navy. Again, the Killer B's may have taken things a step backward in Enterprise in order to show a place of origin, and then to leave wiggle room to show how it evolved into what we saw in TOS, but it's clear it wasn't long before it became military even if it wasn't originally "meant" to be.

[WarpGirl]

Yeah that's what I meant, before the Xindi Starfleet wasn't supposed to be military, it became military out of necessity. I only meant that it became official after the Federation was founded.

[Aquarius]

Well, they were always somewhat military before that, though. Again, with the weapons, ranks, uniforms, chain of command, etc. So you can't strictly say they weren't military before the Xindi attack, either.

[WarpGirl]

Well not necessarily. Other organizations use ranks, uniforms, and chains of command. Heck in the Mafia you have Lieutenants. They're clearly not military. As for weapons... Malcolm aside, nobody really thought they'd be fighting wars. Or even defending themselves from many hostiles. It was kind of like settlers in unknown territory, you're armed but you're not a soldier. Anyway, the first three episodes of season 3 clearly state that Starfleet personel were not trained as soldiers.

[Aikiweezie]

I always thought of Starfleet as a future version of NASA. So just to further confuse things: The astronauts are all members of the military, right? And military structure is used on board the ships and space station, too, yes? But NASA isn't military. How does that work ?

[WarpGirl]

It IS very confusing. Just for the record, usually astronauts, USUALLY are military. More often than not Air Force. But there have been civilians on space missions. However when NASA was first formed being Military was a requirement. Which makes it confusing because NASA isn't military. See if we mere Earthlings make ourselves so confused and we barely get past the moon, I can't imagine how confusing it was forming Starfleet. Thank God for the Vulcans if you ask me.

[Alelou]

Not to mention a lot of the employees at NASA are actually employed by civilian contractors. My uncle was a launch foreman and an engineer on the communications systems on Apollo, but he got paid by Rockwell.

[WarpGirl]

I know a wonderful gentleman who actually helped developed the guidence system for the lunar mod. He went to NASA after getting out of the military. Grumman employed A Lot of people where I grew up on Long Island.

[Silverbullet]

Starfleet is NOT like NASA.

Enterprise is a military vessel. Everything about it ismilitary. commanding Officer, second in command being a full comander, etc.

T-pol a few times saying "with your permission" to Archer. If it was civilian she would just go ahead and do what she intended to do without seeking his permission.

Seking permission from a commander is military.

The Beebs were guilty of so many errors in their effort to make Enterprise a carbon copy of TOS. they were determined to have t-Pol as the Vulcan First Officer and twisted and turned Enterrpise out of shape to do it.

Archer was , in my estimation, a poor Officer and a lousy cimmander. HOwever inefficient he was he still was Commanding Officer and had the obdience of the whole crew. If not its absolute loyalty.

That is military.Just because you have ajerk as a commander doesn't mean you don't have to obey him. that is Military.

I give up Warpgirl, If you want to say that Enterprise was not military who am I to argue with you. It is a mixed civilian military ship.

[WarpGirl]

I wasn't arguing I just looked it up and posted here. I can't help it if they wanted to use a military format and NOT have it as a military in the sense that we Earthlings understand it. I was just talking. Mearchant ships had a similar command structure to their countries navy's back during imperialism and colonization. I said it's confusing. I don't understand why you're upset though. I didn't mean to upset anyone.

[Dinah]

If you honestly believe that Starfleet wasn't a military organization, then you also must believe that Humans at this time were too dumb to exist. Even small countries or prinicipalities have an army or navy or both. They know that if they want to continue to exist, they have to protect themselves. Humans at this time may be naive, but even if they're dumb enough to believe that every new species which comes to call wants to be their friends, there must still be some mechanism in place to protect Earth. When the Xindi attacked, no other military organization stepped forward because none existed; Starfleet is the interstellar military presence.

The Enterprise has the most up-to-date weaponry and staff well trained in their use. I can't image the world community calling on a boat load of scientists, studying seaweed in the Sargasso Sea, to fight international terrorism. They go to the people with the weapons and training to get the job done -- the military.

And if Earth was poking their noses out into the interstellar community without a defense plan in place and a miltary body to protect the planet, then they deserved to be blown to kingdom come. Another example of Darwin's survival of the fittest.

When the original series came along, we were still in the middle of the Cold War. It's perfectly reasonable for the people of the time to want to envision a better future -- a peaceful world where there was no need for the military. There was still a lot of unrest in the world when Enterprise came along. Here again, TPTB wanted to show us that a peaceful future was possible; that humanity had moved beyond war. But if they truly wanted us to believe that Starfleet wasn't a military organization, Enterprise would have been a real science vessel and not a ship of the line. If anything, Enterprise confirms that a military presence will always be a part of mankind's future -- to protect against threats both from without and from within.