Phlox

[evcake]

The Breach, another ep in which I think Billingsley does very well.

[WarpGirl]

Haven't seen it yet but he is an awsome actor. I've seen him on CSI and NCIS, as well as other shows. He always does a good job.

[evcake]

Well we can be. I would have loved to see Phlox actually meet his two youngest sons. We know that they hold on to ancient prejudices, but I really think Phlox and his species should have been more developed in series. I disregard "Dear Doctor" for many many reasons. The main one being scientific inaccuracy. Still I think Plox had the potential to be as good of a Doctor to the show as "Doc" on VOY or Beverly on TNG. Too bad. What would *you* liked to have seen?

There's a story out there about two of Phlox's sons having gone off to seek their fortunes in a rather rickety Vahklas-like ship. They break down and the Enterprise comes to the rescue and helps with repairs. I wish I could remember the name of it...

[WarpGirl]

I remember but that was written before we knew why his sons were estranged. In that particular story they were angry over thaeir father's matchmaking. Which didn't make sense considering their mating practices anyway. But the point was to make them different. I would have liked to see the boy who was an artist. There is too little alien art and music on ST in general. And seeing the three girls would have been cool, aside from Fezzel, one female geologist, and a non-speaking ambassador, not enough women. But they did the same to Vulcans at first.

[evcake]

Well, we know that one of the estranged sons name is Mettus, and his problem with his dad seems political in nature.

[JadziaKathryn]

There were two redeeming things about "A Night in Sickbay."

1. Hoshi catching the bat.
2. Phlox's alien-ness being shown. Even if it was a little icky, he really felt nonhuman. I like that Denobulans, while not a super-developed race (writing wise, not technological development), were very much different in all kinds of ways.

[WarpGirl]

AGREED!

[Aquarius]

I agree, about everything you've said. But whether you believe in evolution or not; they got it wrong. Evolution isn't supposed to work that way, and if you're going to treat it as "fact" then get it right. I know it's TV but come on. As for Phlox being "immoral" IDK, I agree he's done some stupid things but maybe that's just because he's alien. Doesn't make it right, but I'm against humanizing aliens too much. It defeats the purpose of having aliens. I'll see that whole shebang nest Tuesday. And let you know.

I think this episode would have been better with only some slight wordiing changes. This episode wasn't really about evolution, it was about the Prime Directive--which, we all know, governs things like interference in the natural development of less technologically advanced species. The whole point of Enterprise was to show us the pre-Kirk era of Earth's space exploration and the birth of Starfleet and the Federation, and give us a picture of how certain things in Trek lore came to be. At this point in the Trek timeline, there is no Prime Directive yet, but this episode (like many others) was meant to make us go "A-ha! This situation must've been one of the reasons Starfleet adopted the Prime Directive." Unfortunately, they didn't make that very clear when they constructed Phlox's evolution argument. Enterprise isn't the only Trek series to struggle with the issue of whether it's right or wrong to "interfere" in the natural development of a society, nor is it the first one to show that "help" was withheld despite compelling arguments that interfering with the natural development would save lives and be the "right" thing to do. Had it been presented in that context, I think more viewers would have accepted it.

I have to see the episode again--it's been a long time and it's one of the few I've only seen once, but I'm not quite sure about how "evolution isn't supposed to work that way" within the context of what was presented in the show. From what I remember, it seemed pretty obvious that they were making a comparison between what was going on with this planet's people and what scientists believe happened with the neanderthals and the homo sapiens here on planet Earth--at least it seemed pretty consistent with the programs I'd seen on the Discovery Channel about the "survival of the fittest" between the two humanoid races in our prehistoric eras.

[Alelou]

Unfortunately, they really muddied it up by killing off the species that clearly looked the fittest by introducing some obscure genetic disease that was afflicting every single one of them, without any resistance of any kind being developed, which is pretty unrealistic. They also threw in the political angle of the lesser species being (awfully conveniently, from a storytelling point of view) oppressed. And yes, as KTR pointed out, you can't predict how evolution is going to go until it goes; you'd have to have a crystal ball and you'd have to assume that not a single current variable is going to change in the slightest.

But I think you are right about what the writers were trying to do. The result, though, is a really bleah episode that I wouldn't care if I never saw again.

Speaking of which, I was working with Terra Nova on my missing scenes series and if there's any refrain in the feedback it's surprise that I could get anything out of that particular episode because it really sucks. And I know I wasn't looking forward to working with it myself. But honestly, I'm not sure why it sucks so badly. It's a fairly interesting concept. Roanoke has always been a fascinating story, and they did build an interesting little downwardly mobile society there with its own variations on English and the cool musical instruments. So why does that episode fail so thoroughly?

Was it the lack of any real conflict or risk among the people we actually cared about?

[Aquarius]

Unfortunately, they really muddied it up by killing off the species that clearly looked the fittest by introducing some obscure genetic disease that was afflicting every single one of them, without any resistance of any kind being developed, which is pretty unrealistic. They also threw in the political angle of the lesser species being (awfully conveniently, from a storytelling point of view) oppressed.

That's where I kind of picked up on the neanderthal/homo sapien parallel. The programs I've seen on the subject suggest that for a time both species existed at the same time. The neanderthals should've had the home field advantage by having been here longer and for a long time there were more of them, so we homo sapiens were the underdog, yet somehow we "out-evolved" them and became the dominant species.

And yeah, the oppression of the lesser species is definitely a plot device to make us sympathetic toward them, to make the question of helping the more advanced species more controversial.

And yes, as KTR pointed out, you can't predict how evolution is going to go until it goes; you'd have to have a crystal ball and you'd have to assume that not a single current variable is going to change in the slightest.

Which is why I think they shouldn't have made it about "evolution" so much as "the natrual development of two societies" and "giving advanced technology to a lesser-developed species." Those are conflicts any Trekkie can relate to, because we all know that the Prime Directive is based on the reasoning that if you give a chimp a gun and the chimp shoots somebody, it's not the chimp's fault, it's yours for being dumb enough to give him the gun. from T'Pol's remarks in earlier episodes, it seems the Vulcans of her time have employed their own Prime Directive for a long time, so it's not that much of a stretch that this episode could've been easily modified into something more relatable yet still carry the essence of what the writers were trying to say.

[Alelou]

Yup.

[WarpGirl]

That's where I kind of picked up on the neanderthal/homo sapien parallel. The programs I've seen on the subject suggest that for a time both species existed at the same time. The neanderthals should've had the home field advantage by having been here longer and for a long time there were more of them, so we homo sapiens were the underdog, yet somehow we "out-evolved" them and became the dominant species. And yeah, the oppression of the lesser species is definitely a plot device to make us sympathetic toward them, to make the question of helping the more advanced species more controversial.Which is why I think they shouldn't have made it about "evolution" so much as "the natrual development of two societies" and "giving advanced technology to a lesser-developed species." Those are conflicts any Trekkie can relate to, because we all know that the Prime Directive is based on the reasoning that if you give a chimp a gun and the chimp shoots somebody, it's not the chimp's fault, it's yours for being dumb enough to give him the gun. from T'Pol's remarks in earlier episodes, it seems the Vulcans of her time have employed their own Prime Directive for a long time, so it's not that much of a stretch that this episode could've been easily modified into something more relatable yet still carry the essence of what the writers were trying to say.

I actually agree as well, but I have studied the priciples of Evolution and sometimes the Discovery channel oversimplifies it. "Dear Doctor" got it wrong, and I just believe if a SCIENCE fiction show is going to present real scientific theories/facts they should get them right. I assume all of these people passed the science courses their schools gave them. I realize that this was supposed to be about the Prime Directive, but it was the wrong episode to showcase it. "Detained" would have been a MUCH better choice. I also think that Phlox was right when crewman Cutler was expressing her outrage over the supposed "oppression" yeah to a human they were, but they were happy, well fed, and most importantly THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED HELP! If the had been beaten, starved, or otherwise harmed then there would have been cause for outrage.

[Alelou]

Oh dear. If Star Trek always got its science right, it simply couldn't exist in anything close to the form we know it now. You might find it more relaxing to think of it as space opera.

[Aquarius]

I actually agree as well, but I have studied the priciples of Evolution and sometimes the Discovery channel oversimplifies it.

Not that there's anything wrong with a little oversimplification from a network that's trying to make science accessible to everyone, regardless of age or educational background. They're not trying to solve the world's problems of give us the answer to the question of the Meaning of Life (which we all know is "42" any way! ), they're just trying to show the average person something they may not have thought about before or give them a little more information on something they may be curious about. After TV, it's kind of up to the individual in question to be motivated to go to the library or internet and find out more.

For my purposes here, it worked just fine.

"Dear Doctor" got it wrong, and I just believe if a SCIENCE fiction show is going to present real scientific theories/facts they should get them right. I assume all of these people passed the science courses their schools gave them

Again, I need to see the episode again because I really am not recalling what is supposedly "wrong" with how evolution is presented, so I'm not going to argue the point of whether or not it was "right" or "wrong." I will, however, say that the operative word in science fiction is "fiction," so sometimes a suspension of disbelief is called for in the face of what we know is "wrong." Also, one could argue that in a story set in the future, they may have changed their minds about what they believe the theory of evolution is. After all, our people once believed the world is flat, and we never would've reached other continents let alone stars without a certain flexibility in thinking about what we believed to be "true." Again, this iis all speculation because my recollection of some of the details is sketchy.

Regardless, whether or not it was "right" is all academic to me, the real flaw in this episode is that they zeroed in on the wrong thing (evolution) and made it important, not whether or not they got their science right. Most "real" science fiction writers will argue that most of the science in Trek is "junk science" any way.

[WarpGirl]

OH I know that. Things like Warp Drive, Transporters, evil nebulas, and stuff like that is fine. Stuff like gravity, the theory of reletivity, evolution (even if I don't believe in it) should be presented the way they actually are BEFORE you break the rules. That's what they did in TNG and I passed elementry and high school science with HONORS because of it. This is how I justify my obsession with my mother. And considering she got me hooked it works.