Character Flaws

[Aikiweezie]

but whether or not Phlox did anything "wrong" there would depend on if you were asking a human or a Denobulan...much like how I was saying in another thread that I have very little sympathy for Koss, but if I were a Vulcan male looking at his situation, I might be sympathizing all over the place. It's all just a matter of perspective.

You know......I find myself agreeing with you more often than not, Aquarius. Maybe what I meant was that from Trip's perspective it was a sucky thing for him to say (sucky...is that a word?).

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Just to clarify the evolution thing (without bringing creationism into it), here's from my review of Dear Doctor (the episode in question):

Now, I'm no evolutionary biologist but I've read enough about it to understand that this is a truly warped view of what evolution is about. Yes, evolution is a principle of how species evolves and some eventually dies out (survival of the fittest and all that). It is however not a blueprint which can help you predict the future outcome for a certain species. It is random whether, how and when a species will evolve. There's no way of knowing beforehand how it will turn out. Only ex post facto can we say something about the whys and the hows. Phlox makes statements about what will happen as if they would be indisputable facts. Well, they're most certainly not! All it is, is pure conjecture about future evolutionary paths that might happen centuries or millennia from now. Basing decisions, especially one of this astounding magnitude, on what may or may not happen is in fact rather obscene. What you're left with, the only thing that you can be reasonably sure about, is what is happening in the here and now. And withholding the cure would in all likelihood condemn the Valakians to great suffering and death. If that is not immoral then I don't know what is. It is genocide by wilful omission. You can hide behind the proto-prime directive all you want but in the end not making a choice is a choice in and of itself. You're "playing God" regardless. This is a form of Social Darwinism that I find quite repugnant! Given this logic any doctor treating a patient is "playing God", any aid agency sending relief to third world countries is "playing God" or any society that takes care of its less fortunate citizens is "playing God".

[WarpGirl]

You took the words out of my mouth. Thanks for helping me clear up that point. But I'm not sure that is considered a character flaw or a scientific one.

[Alelou]

Yes, of course. I think it would be reasonable to say the writers played fast and loose with concepts of evolution in order to create a simplistic pre-Prime Directive moral quandary there.

Similarly, Sim was in no way a believable clone. A clone who grows into its donor's memories? Come on. Not to mention he grew incredibly fast, fast enough to remember what Trip was doing the night before the accident with T'Pol, and then for the last third of the story conveniently stopped aging. But I can live with that, because it allowed an amazing story. (Can't say I feel the same way about the other one.)

[Aquarius]

Similarly, Sim was in no way a believable clone. A clone who grows into its donor's memories? Come on. Not to mention he grew incredibly fast, fast enough to remember what Trip was doing the night before the accident with T'Pol, and then for the last third of the story conveniently stopped aging. But I can live with that, because it allowed an amazing story.

Personally, that didn't bother me much, because the operative word in science fiction is "fiction."

Besides, because of pop culture (and yes, Star Trek has contributed to this), so many people are under the misconception that when you make a clone, you get a carbon copy of yourself. Not true, because you are also the product of two people's DNA, and each of them is the product of two people's DNA, and so on. There is likely to be a family resemblance, you'll certainly look enough alike to be siblings, but your clone may be short if you're tall, have your mom's blue eyes even though yours are green, etc. (I read all about this when they cloned the kitty a few years back.) But an exact copy? No.

[Alelou]

Not only that, but your environment growing up and even in the womb can cause significant differences.

For example, babies born to mothers who were starving because of famine are much more likely to suffer from certain health problems, like metabolic syndrome, later in life ... and can even pass these tendencies on to THEIR children, without any further famine being involved.

[Aquarius]

Also, I've read that your gender can be determined by the pH of the mother's cervix, so I'm sure that information can also be used while creating your clone.

[WarpGirl]

Cloning aside, I think growing someone just to harvest brain tissue knowing they are going to die is murder. I won't touch cloning. Like I said Phlox's "flaw" is that he can compromise his integrity at will. What about the other characters' flaws.? What do you think they are?

[Aquarius]

Cloning aside, I think growing someone just to harvest brain tissue knowing they are going to die is murder. I won't touch cloning. Like I said Phlox's "flaw" is that he can compromise his integrity at will. What about the other characters' flaws.? What do you think they are?

Let's break that down into two parts:

1. growing someone just to harvest brain tissue
2. knowing they're going to die.

First, initial estimates was that harvesting the tissue was NOT going to kill Sim. He would be able to live out his natural albeit short life span. It wasn't until later that this problem was discovered.

Second, we have babies, knowing they're going to die someday. We hope it'll be until some ripe old age, we hope they'll outlive us, but it doesn't always happen. So yeah, they knew Sim was gonna die, but they didn't think it was the procedure that was gonna kill him. They fully intended to let him live as full of a life as you can in a couple of weeks, while trying to do something to serve the greater good--the survival of Planet Earth and all its inhabitants.

The whole point of it was that it wasn't an easy decision and that it was morally questionable...Archer felt like he had to look at it as any other wartime commander would, and send someone on a suicide mission in order to make sure the goal got accomplished. It's horrible, but it happens, even now.

And part of what made this so compelling was the fact that Phlox had to live with himself after discovering that the harvesting of the tissue would kill Sim.What started out as a minor deviation from his beliefs became a huge screw-up.

Other flaws: Porthos is a cheese addict.

[WarpGirl]

Other flaws: Porthos is a cheese addict.

Oh I don't think that counts, now if he were like my dog wreaking havoc all the time, (his name is Jar Jar) I'd say it's admissable.

[Escriba]

Other flaws: Porthos is a cheese addict.

Oh I don't think that counts, now if he were like my dog wreaking havoc all the time, (his name is Jar Jar) I'd say it's admissable.

Good name!

The complain I have with Sim is that he grows too fast with no phisical pain at all. That's impossible. With that growing rate, he had to suffer severe pain. Believe me, I've known a girl who suffered a strange disease which made her growing her bones too fast and it was hell (don't ask me what kind of disease it was because, frankly, I don't remember.)

[Alelou]

That's a good point.

And pain begets even more pain, so that Sim would have been one screwed up guy, unless he was constantly on painkillers.

There's another AU for ya, Escriba. You didnt' do THAT one yet!

[Aquarius]

That's a good point.

And pain begets even more pain, so that Sim would have been one screwed up guy, unless he was constantly on painkillers.

There's another AU for ya, Escriba. You didnt' do THAT one yet!

Oh, it's on now! You've gotta do it, Escriba!

[Aikiweezie]

That's a good point.

And pain begets even more pain, so that Sim would have been one screwed up guy, unless he was constantly on painkillers.

I have a five year old boy who ocasionally gets growing pains - and it will take him 18 years to reach adulthood, not 5 days!!!!

That's just another reason I think they could have/should have kept him sedated or in a coma so he wasn't aware and walking around and freaking everone out. Nesides the fact that his mental development makes no sense. I did like parts if the epoisode, though.

[panyasan]

Out of curiosity, why should some one with pain automaticly be a screwed up guy? I am married to a men who is in pain every day and still manages to live a somewhat normal life.
But I agree, how Sim deals with his pain- and the people surrounding him, like T'Pol, is an interesting story.