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Hoshi's trained as a linguist: i.e. she translates languages into Standard English and assists with unfamiliar cultures and mores. So I see her using APPLIED linguistics (she uses her training to teach and to deal with real-life situations, often spur-of-the-moment.). There are many DIFFERENT branches of linguistics. Granted, she's got an extraordinary ear (perfect pitch, most likely) and probably low-level telepathy as well ("Exile") that help her in her job.

As ATranswarp pointed out in another thread, Hoshi has to be savvy on the technical side of her job too, ie. the Universal Translator and all the comm systems on board ship. That HAS to be a given, if she's the head of the Communications dept. Just because we didn't see her actually *doing* that on the series doesn't mean she *can't* do it.

Codebreaking...that's definitely another skill set. Just because you're trained in linguistics doesn't necessarily mean you're automatically a cryptologist. But it can help. There are patterns common to almost all languages (and Hoshi admits to Trip in "Observer Effect" that she's good at picking them up and "Math is just another language"). In order to construct a translation matrix (like the UT) you have to spot those patterns and program them into a form that will help decode/translate a foreign language into something intelligible. So translating a language is like breaking a (foreign) code in a certain way. If Hoshi was supposed to encode the Universal Translator matrix (according to her "future profile" in IAMD), she'd better be well-versed in a)picking up the patterns and b)technically competent enough to program the matrix in the first place.

That's another branch of linguistics, called COMPUTATIONAL linguistics, and that's exactly when it sounds like. Analyzing all the possible permutations of language. It wouldn't surprise me if Hoshi was also skilled at (or at least, familiar with) this. The more cultures Enterprise meets (and the more First Contacts they make), she'd have to use these skills to at least get the basic communications down. And no, it probably wouldn't happen as fast as it does on the show, but that's Star Trek.

So I think Hoshi really does represent a "communications officer" on the first warp 5 starship. One thing I really didn't like about Uhura in TOS was that they showed her as nothing more than just s glorified switchboard operator.

(Annie, who specialized in foreign languages, applied linguistics and education)

All very true, LR. Heck, there was even an episode in TOS where Uhura was in coveralls tearing up the guts of a panel, so we *should* know that's part of the job! I think people forget that sometimes, though.

Maybe the short skirt didn't help.

Of course, for that time she was still pretty remarkable.

Well, my point was, if that even happened in the "short skirt" era, then we know for sure it should be the case on a show that was created during a more "enlightened" era of our history.

Alelou wrote:Maybe the short skirt didn't help.

Of course, for that time she was still pretty remarkable.

Yeah, she was. I know it was the times, but Uhura definitely knew her stuff, and her presence on the bridge was a first!

I vaguely remember Gene Roddenberry saying that he had more in mind for Uhura's character and responsibilities but just couldn't get it by the execs. Not sure of this though.

Perhaps the movie was suppose to show us what Uhura should have been without the limitations of the TOS production era.

Okay flay me alive for this but I think Uhura got a much better deal than Hoshi for the most part. I mean, in the episode Vox Sola it says this...

HOSHI: I've made a little progress, but our translation matrix isn't designed for this. Look at it. It's more like a calculus equation than a language.
T'POL: Mathematics is sometimes considered a form of language.
HOSHI: What I'm trying to say is that I could use help from someone with a background in higher mathematics.

I now can use the transcripts to site because I got off my lazy bum and bookmarked it. But later on she's cracking codes and has got higher math skills of her own! At least Uhura got to tear apart her own console, and owned communications completely. Hoshi got shafted!

At least Hoshi also got command ... in nearly the last episode...

Wait I thought we all agreed that Terra Prime was the last episode... And yeah, I guess that's a point. But it's not much of a consolation. Command really isn't Hoshi's job, nor is it Uhura's. At least Uhura was shown as owning her own job!

There's an episode after "Terra Prime"?

As for jobs, WG, they were both bridge officers. They probably have some sort of command training, in the event of an emergency and all that. 'Sides, who better to command a diplomatic vessel than a linguist who happens to like studying other cultures?

aadarshinah wrote:There's an episode after "Terra Prime"?

As for jobs, WG, they were both bridge officers. They probably have some sort of command training, in the event of an emergency and all that. 'Sides, who better to command a diplomatic vessel than a linguist who happens to like studying other cultures?

Yeah I know they're both Bridge officers and have cross command experience. But the point is, Uhura tore apart her own COMM station, and did everything her job required. Hoshi at first, (because nobody gave a thought that she might need it to do her job, and then wrecked continuity later) needed help with "higher math" and all that other stuff. It's not fair, Uhura got a great deal, considering it was the 60's, and she was African American.

Well, Hoshi also 1) got laid, 2) got two whole episodes to revolve around her, and 3) could break any language or code in the universe at whatever speed the plot required, without the universal translator, which they clear implied only really worked well after she got involved.

Uhura Got to kiss Kirk which in the grand scheme of things was WAY MORE IMPORTANT than Hoshi's little one-night-stand. As for the 2 episodes that revolved around her... True but neither were terribly well written, and Uhura had some very important "bit parts" a favorite episode comes to mind The Savage Curtain... One conversation with "Mr. Lincon" means more than both Hoshi's episodes. Uhura could fix her own consol, Hoshi couldn't. Hoshi might have told them what to do to make the UT work, but she didn't put it together on her own.

Ugh. That kiss with Kirk was really painful to watch -- it was being forced, remember? It wasn't exactly sexy. I'll take Hoshi's obviously pleasant one night stand over that anyday.

This feels like some sort of weird poker match.

And I'm off to work.

Well my point was the kiss meant a lot for both African Americans and women at the time. It was a huge deal! Giving the character, and the actress a powerful message. Hoshi's night did nothing like that for her character. Uhura had an impact, a positive powerful impact... This despite the fact that the tech of the TOS era made her linguinistic skills uncessesary. So no I don't see Uhura as a "glorified switchboard operator" her character was much better used than Hoshi's was for the time of the show.

And I ADORE Hoshi, I think it's a crime that in this era of social and gender advancement her character was not fully realized to the potential it had.

As for this being a weird poker match, well that wasn't my intention.