Most evil Star Trek moments

[TPoptarts]

I press ctrl+C now and copy the text b4 I hit send, and then if I get cut off, I can paste it back.

Heh I do the same thing

[enterprikayak]

Occupational hazard of being chatty, I suppose. But how else is the world going to receive our hallowed wisdom? alas. (PS - Your free clinic sucks donkey balls, and I want to go and kick them in the donkey balls for you.)

[TPoptarts]

I don't have any wisdom. And the free clinic is ignoring my email. But like I said everyone ignores me anyway. I'm just the wrong person to try to do something that matters.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

So, long story short, this comes from a writer's bible Roddenberry and one of his friends wrote up when they were still developing TMP, part of which lays out how the new humanity is supposedly super open about sex and relationships (think Brave New World) and don't really believe in marriage anymore. Just a prime example of why TNG sucked, especially the first two seasons of it.

I recall from the TMP novelization that Kirk had had a one-year marriage contract with a female admiral (she was the one that got killed in the transporter accident). But that fact thankfully never made it to the screen, so we can disregard it.

It also mentioned the "new humans" who preferred to let their individuality get sucked into different group consciousnesses. *shudders* Roddenberry did however admit that these "new humans" didn't make for good Starfleet officers, and that Starfleet needed the more "primitive" breed like Kirk. Thankfully this didn't translate onto the screen either. But I suppose it was one of those things that stayed in the back of Gene's head as he developed TNG and the 24th century "utopia".

[enterprikayak]

Sounds a lot like some of the new new age stuff (collective consciousness, etc), which when boiled down could make sense in the future, as we as a species streamline our older religions, and (as always) look for spirituality to justify our existence in this wacky universe. In any case, a pretty far-seeing idea for him, a guy who had just lived through the 30's, 40's and 50's.

[CX]

Not really, after all, Brave New World was written in 1932 and a lot of his "utopian" ideas are pretty similiar to the humanity presented in that book - sexual promescuity encouraged, death trivialized (because apparently Roddenberry thought even a little kid should be just fine after his mother died, leaving him an orphin), and other things of that nature. There was even a section in there about wildlife reservations and how people could go there to live like indians if they wanted. I wished I could remember where this was posted online.

[JadziaKathryn]

It also mentioned the "new humans" who preferred to let their individuality get sucked into different group consciousnesses. *shudders*

Hmph. Who needs the Borg at that rate?

Actually, these robo-humans would think, "Sweet! Group consciousness on steroids! Assimilate me first!"

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

It also mentioned the "new humans" who preferred to let their individuality get sucked into different group consciousnesses. *shudders*

Hmph. Who needs the Borg at that rate?

Actually, these robo-humans would think, "Sweet! Group consciousness on steroids! Assimilate me first!"

Heh! That was actually my first thought way back when I first saw the Borg on TNG!

[thecursor]

Ahem, there are only three REALLY evil moments to my mind. But they aren't actually moments:

Borg Overuse-Hey, you know how scary and creepy those Borg are? Lets show them getting their asses handed to them over and over again until they aren't scary any more and then give them a queen who also isn't that scary.

Wesley Crusher- Kirk would've killed the kid and had sex with the mom by the end of the season, further proof Picard was a wussy was that not only did Wesley survive but that he let him go off with a god like alien for tutoring.

Holo-Communicators- The Holodecks stories are almost always the lamest stories in Trek, the Viewscreens are the most reliable story devices...when you combine the two, they suck.

I would also like to say that Gene Roddenberry based much of his ideas on a concept called "Technocracy", a democracy of technology where technological advances have made much of our current society obsolete (marriage, money, religion). The thing about the Technocracy is that it's been largely disproven (machines might get better but humans are still shit heads) and that a society of Technocrats are, well, boring. Technocrats don't work, they don't actually debate anything, they're supposed to only pursue knowledge and artistic achievement but without the conflict of society I can't imagine how crappy their art must be. Notice all the really interesting people in Trek are delightfully unenlightened.

Basically the entire idea is Robert E. Howard's worst nightmare. Instead of a society that degenerates through decadance and corrpution, the Trek Universe gets more and more civilized thanks to technology and there for becomes weaker and weaker. Two Gun Bob would throw a fit.

[JadziaKathryn]

Notice all the really interesting people in Trek are delightfully unenlightened.

I don't know about that. Data was pretty enlightened but still interesting.

[Asso]

Data represents the tension for something he needs.
That - if well done - makes a character very big.
As T'Pol.
On his own way, also Trip. And Malcolm.

[Alelou]

I don't know who Two Gun Bob is, but I agree with almost everything you said. I much preferred Picard to Kirk, though.

Roddenberry's ideas about humanity really got in the way of TNG.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Technocrats don't work, they don't actually debate anything, they're supposed to only pursue knowledge and artistic achievement but without the conflict of society I can't imagine how crappy their art must be.

Which must be why they all read Shakespeare and play jazz... All the good art has already been made!

[blacknblue]

Which is why the Cardassians stomped their teeth in, and then walked all over them and made them flee in terror and abandon their own people to the tender mercy of the Cardassian empire, thereby focing them to form the Maquis. And then the Federation cowards jumped in and helped their enemies hunt down their enemies kill their own people, the Maquis, in order to bribe them into leaving the Federation alone. Which didn't work. And the Cardassian/Dominion alliance came within a cat whisker of eating the Federation alive until Sisko finally begged the Klingons into coming back to the alliance and saving their miserable asses.

The TNG/DS9 Federation gives me nausea.

[thecursor]

I don't know who Two Gun Bob is, but I agree with almost everything you said. I much preferred Picard to Kirk, though.

Roddenberry's ideas about humanity really got in the way of TNG.

Two Gun Bob is the nickname for Robert E. Howard, an early pioneer of sci-fi/fantasy from the 20s and 30s. He's better known as the creator of Conan the Barbarian but despite how that particular creation is viewed, he's actually considered to be one of the best authors of early fantasy and pioneered the Sword and Sorcery Genre (also called Low Fantasy). Howard's most fascinating concept was his belief that civilization ran contray to the natural state of man, to Howard our tall buildings and scientic achievement was just masking a growing perversion of the natural order.

In Howard's mind, the so called "Barbarians" of the world were superior to people who claimed to be enlightened. His favorite example was Rome, where centuries of civilized life lead to an eventual toppling of the social order by barbarian tribes like the Goths or the Huns. Naturally, this concept is more literary then scientific and it doesn't hold up well when examined under a microscope (also he and his good buddy HP Lovecraft were hideously racist and chauvinist so...I mean, that's something you have to recognize) But in terms of philosphy, it's the perfect anti-Trek: Where Roddenberry believes the world will only get better, Two Gun Bob only thinks it'll get worse.

Which must be why they all read Shakespeare and play jazz... All the good art has already been made!

I know! You mean to tell me there isn't one friggin' Heavy Metal fan on the Enterprise? Please don't tell me Worf didn't have Led Zepplin! I know Klingon's love Shakespeare (makes sense, it was all murder and death really) but you just know those guys must've made AC/DC honorary Klingons! Probably hung the Back in Black Album in the hall of heroes or something.