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JadziaKathryn wrote:Oh, okay. Right. Chuckles is Chakotay. That's what Q called him once, and the name has stuck some in the fanfic community. Particularly among people who aren't his greatest fans.

Yeah, I'm not one of his biggest fans, to put it mildly. Tough maquis my foot!

I'm pretty sure KTR was referring to Chakotay, not Fear. But how he watched the whole series and didn't get a hint of J/C I don't know, unless he missed "Resolutions" where they were stranded together.

I might have missed an episode or two. And since I've only seen the show once (except a few episodes) I'm bound to have forgotten some things. I have just a vague recollection of them being stranded, but I might also just have read about that ep rather than having seen it. *shrugs*

But, since TPTB didn't develop this "ship" over time, it didn't register with me. Paris/Torres did (and I actually rooted for them, even if i wouldn't call myself a P/T 'shipper).

They tested the waters with that ship--Janeway/Chakotay. At the beginning of season 3, or whichever season Seven of Nine appeared, my husband interviewed the Robert Beltran and the actor WANTED something to happen between his character and the captain. He was complaining that they just toyed with that storyline, then dropped it.

I was so fed up when they did Resolutions -- more freaking teasing -- and after all those years of Picard/Crusher that went nowhere I remembering thinking to hell with this I'm not getting sucked in again! I can still remember us screaming in disgust during the little campfire scene of "Attached" on TNG. And I still wish they'd never made their damned movies because All Good Things was the kind of finale that made fans happy and I'd rather just remember that.

But they did a nice job with Paris and Torres. And a passable one with Trip and T'Pol. So what is it with ST -- only captains can never resolve?

Captains are married to the ship. Poor captains.

Another good reason to read that Strange Love fic!

Captains have to be married to their ships. There's just no way that a Captain could, or should, get involved with anyone under his or her command. He shouldn't be forced into a situation when he had to choose between his duty and the one he loved. Remember that TNG episode (I don't recall the name) where Picard played the flute to a woman scientist, who was then put in harm's way.

Also, a C.O. especially shouldn't get involved with anyone who has the authority to relieve him of command if that would be deemed necessary. And the ship's doctor (like Beverly Crusher) is one who can do that, as is the X.O. (like Chakotay). That would thoroughly mess up the chain-of-command. Imagine if Picard got Captain Queeg crazy and a Dr. Beverly Picard would be needed to judge him unfit for command!

I'll admit that even Trip/T'Pol is a bit iffy in this regard, but at least Trip isn't the Captain.

This time I don't agree with you.
It's a fallacy, in my mind.
And that makes captains unlikeable and... false.

I buy that argument in real life, but not on TV. I MIGHT buy that argument on TV if they didn't tease us all the time with inappropriate UST. I also might have bought it if the two characters involved ever had an adult conversation about it.

But in Voyager I think they had an excuse -- talk about an extended mission.

In my mind even a TV drama, even one set in outer space, must have some semblance of reality and how things in all likelihood would be, UST or not.

As far as VOY is concerned, I don't really care since a) I never really noticed anything C/J, and b) Neither of those were exactly favourite characters of mine.

IMO, the whole premise of VOY was screwed from day one. They should have set it up differently. They reason they gave for not taking advantage of the chance to come back, (am I remembering this right?) was stupid. The Captain's decision to force the crew to run halfway across the galaxy instead of starting a new colony somewhere was dumb too. And putting Maquis in charge of SF officers who had years of seniority over them was a recipe for mutiny.

I think the reason they gave for giving Chuckles second seat was that he was an ex-Starfleet officer ala Cal Hudson.

So what reason would you have given for them to be trapped in the DQ and to keep going instead of finding some nice planet someplace out of the way and settling down?

I don't know that I would have. I think they should have settled down. Either that, or given some crew the option of disembarking, and gone home with the rest. It would have been a completely different show if I had done it of course.

They were trying to re-tell the Odyssey. I don't think they quite reached the same epic level.

And if they could make and build a delta flyer, why couldn't they add on to the main ship? Like building cargo pods for additional crew quarters that could be used for extra living space, so that people could marry and raise families and convert VOY into a true generational ship?

Hey! I agree Voyager was depressing from the get-go, but personally I didn't think the lovely Robert Beltran had ANYTHING to do with that.

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:Captains have to be married to their ships. There's just no way that a Captain could, or should, get involved with anyone under his or her command. He shouldn't be forced into a situation when he had to choose between his duty and the one he loved. Remember that TNG episode (I don't recall the name) where Picard played the flute to a woman scientist, who was then put in harm's way.

Also, a C.O. especially shouldn't get involved with anyone who has the authority to relieve him of command if that would be deemed necessary. And the ship's doctor (like Beverly Crusher) is one who can do that, as is the X.O. (like Chakotay). That would thoroughly mess up the chain-of-command. Imagine if Picard got Captain Queeg crazy and a Dr. Beverly Picard would be needed to judge him unfit for command!

I'll admit that even Trip/T'Pol is a bit iffy in this regard, but at least Trip isn't the Captain.

Good point KTR, which is why on Voyager they had Janeway escaping to romance holonovels--because, it was pretty solid rule as part of the backstory that she was not going to be allowed to hook up with one of the crew. I think they stuck to that vision. As for Seven/Janeway, I actually LIKED that mentoring relationship they had. I think it worked well. As for UST between Janeway and the others, I think Janeway had a way of physically stepping too close to crewmen, right into their personal space, but I don't think it was necessarily sexual. I think it heightened all the drama.

I keep thinking that VOY could have been a great show if they had made the ship something similar to the Enterprise in E2. It could have spanned generations, making Voyager an ark of sorts, and finally arriving back in the Alpha Quadrant a hundred years later or so.